It's baaaack! HELP

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Ironmike

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I've posted this before and really never got a definitive solution, so I'm tryin' again.
Here's the issue: Last fall my 71 Demon 340 began to mysteriously die. Driving along, tach needle drops to zero and...dead. Wouldn't re-start in a million years UNLESS I turn the key all the way off and then it will re start and MAYBE get me home.

Here's what I have done: New Mallory distrib, Accel 300+ CD type ignition(no ballast resistor needed), new Accel coil, new wires, new plugs, new alternator, regulator, starter relay, battery. There's probably more but I can't remember.

So I think it's fixed. WRONG! Put on some new rockers and rods and drove around yesterday and right before I get home, it does it AGAIN. And again. Very intermittent.

Some guys have said it's probably the ignition switch. I have one, but ot's a bear to replace.
Some guys have said it's the Mopar ammeter thing.

Somebody please at least help me diagnose this thing. It's an otherwise very nice car that I have lost all confidence in.

I'm at the point I tell a local Auto electric specialty shop today I'll pay him whatever he wants to fix it, he says "call me in early July".
 
I would start with your battery post connections to make sure they are clean and tight, then I would move to the firewall bulkhead and unplug, clean, ad any type of anti corrosion product and plug them back in. If you still have the problem the next step would be to pull the gauge cluster and make sure the voltmeter gauge wires are clean and tight. Lastly would be the ignition switch, since it is a M_ _ _ er F _ _ _ er to service you might want to get some sprays for electronic components that you can try first. Good Luck
 
If the tach needle drops to zero instantly, it sounds like a firewall connector or an ignition switch problem.
 
Adding to whats said above, run a voltmeter with an extension wire to the power + input of your ignition system, I assume there is a single 12 volt + input on it, or maybe it has a main hot to the battery and a "signal" which activates it coming off an ignition switched source. Then while driving, monitor your voltage to the ignition system + input(s), one at a time. If power is disappearing to your ignition system you will know. Then trace the source of power intermittency. If it wont start, and you show low or no voltage on the power input of your ignition, then you know its your + power source wire from your car thats the issue. Heck if not a power source issue, it could be a grounding problem. Where is your ignition system mounted? Does the ig system and auxiliary components ground thru their mounting frame(s)? Also, if you (or a short) ground the tach wire it kills the ignition on some systems. So if your tach wire or tach is shorting out, could be your problem... Remove the tach wire from off your electronic ignition system (at the ECU, brain or similar) and test drive it.... My suggestions before you have some one else go spending your hard earned money digging around in your wires for a month.
 
Mine was doing a similar thing with the tach once. It would be idling and all of a sudden the tach would blip to 0, cough, jump back to 700 and idle fine. Mine turned out to be the wire for the electric choke assist that gets its power from the ign circuit, I had knocked it off when messing around under the hood and the 12v source was touching the ex manifold every once and a while.

If the only thing that you haven't changed is the switch and all you have to do to get it running again is wiggle the switch, then it's most likely the switch

But, it sounds like you already know what it is but don't want to change it ( ignition switch ).
We all have done it at one point..at least I have.. ( changing the "easy" parts first because the part we hope it's not, is gonna SUCK to fix ) .... it's like changing a water pump and/or thermostat when we know ( and everyone else says ) the radiator is plugged...

Nuker has some good troubleshooting advise, and I've said it in the past, electrical gremlins run in fear from a methodical approach and repeatable processes. Unfortunately those are very time consuming...
 
I honestly don't know that it's the ign switch, or I'da changed it months ago.
At one point last fall, I wired my ignition box right to the battery. It ran for quite awhile and just when I though I had it narrowed down, it died.

One 12V wire, right to the ignition and it still died. Disconnected the tach along time ago.
To get restarted it's not a wiggle the key thing, it must be shut off...then it will restart.

I'm gonna dig around a bit tomorrow. Maybe check the volmeter connections.

Seems to me though, if your running right to the battery and it still dies, It can't be the ign switch.......or could it?
The boys at Accel checked my box and they say that something is surging, shorting, etc...causing the box to shut down, requiring a power off to re-set it. The key is, what the heck is shorting or whatever?

Gotta figure it out soon.
 
My '71 Duster will also die while running or at times it will crank but not start. It turned out to be the big gang connector on harness that runs out of the column.

Chuck
 
You'd be correct about hooking it up directly to the battery. I did that to test an HEI box and my car would run with the key completely off.

I did see something "kinda" similar on accel's site, but the search functionality is a bit lacking...
http://www.accel-ignition.com/TechSupportResults.aspx?ID=99958

Let us know how the voltage checks out and we'll revisit the possible causes.
 
Ironmike said:
I honestly don't know that it's the ign switch, or I'da changed it months ago.
At one point last fall, I wired my ignition box right to the battery. It ran for quite awhile and just when I though I had it narrowed down, it died.

One 12V wire, right to the ignition and it still died. Disconnected the tach along time ago.
To get restarted it's not a wiggle the key thing, it must be shut off...then it will restart.

I'm gonna dig around a bit tomorrow. Maybe check the volmeter connections.

Seems to me though, if your running right to the battery and it still dies, It can't be the ign switch.......or could it?
The boys at Accel checked my box and they say that something is surging, shorting, etc...causing the box to shut down, requiring a power off to re-set it. The key is, what the heck is shorting or whatever?

Gotta figure it out soon.
Click to expand...

You are on the right track from what you posted above. The "surging,shorting" can only be one of two things. The box does not have a good ground any more or your voltage regulator is spiking and causing it to shut down.
 
well, regulator is new, and it was doin' it BEFORE the Accel ignition was put on. I thought it would cure the problem.
I do think I will ground the box to the frame instead of the engine.

I'm still leaning toward a freaky ammeter, but who knows.

Gonna dig into it hard this weekend.
 
Ironmike said:
well, regulator is new, and it was doin' it BEFORE the Accel ignition was put on. I thought it would cure the problem.
I do think I will ground the box to the frame instead of the engine.

I'm still leaning toward a freaky ammeter, but who knows.

Gonna dig into it hard this weekend.
Click to expand...

yes and as stated above don't forget to check the connector from the steering column to the dash harness, good luck.
 
OK. As I posted earlier, I decided to put a new ign. switch in and bypass the ammeter. Figure my "problem" had to be one of these things, by process of elimination.

Today I put in the new ignition. Not that bad, just a bit tedious. The old one didn't look or feel like it was bad. Hook up the battery, check turn signals, flashers, dash lights. All good. So I fire it up. Purring like a kitten. Rakety rack. Sounds real good. I already disconnected the tach to eliminate that, so I'm watching the ammeter. All of a sudden it's all over the place, pegging from full charge to complete discharg. Then it dies. Just like before, no restart until I turn the key off. Fired right up and now showing a discharge while running.
First thing I did is pull the pos batt cable off and it dies. Not charging. 2 month old alternator.

While running I'm getting no charge. The big terminal on the alt is showing 12.5 volts, the battery showing 12.8. Both field terminals show absolutely nothing.

Could this be the ammeter? I sure hope so. I thought I was stumped before, but now I'm pullin' out hair.

I have 4 days to fix this %^$# thing and I was really hoping it was the ignition switch.
What should my next move be?
 
Just unplug the harness from the ignition switch and plug you spare in start it up and see if it will do it again. If it does that will tell you if the switch is bad.

Just by pass the amp meter and see what happens.
 
I am going with the firewall connector ignition wire. My Runner did this to me last year and it was a bad ignition wire at the bulkhead {ENGINE SIDE}, jiggled it around and it fired right up and ran great....ofcourse I did fix it later LOL.
AL
 
I feel your frustration Ironmike! Before you get any madder at your car, can you take it to an auto parts store that can check the Alternator? They have a tester that will only test the Alternator.
 
It's time for the test lite when you can't restart w/o turning it off. Check the connections at the column, Yellow wire, blue wire, brown wire, etc, with the key STILL in run position.
 
I'm planning on checking the firewall connector. Unplugged and cleaned it a couple months ago when this issue began, but I didn't really check it thoroughly. The car IS running, but not charging.

Last step tomorrow will probably be taking the alt off and back to A-Zone to be checked. Probably only has 100 miles on it, so I have my doubts. Maybe the new ignition switch somehow fried it...
I really hope it's the ammeter. Gonna bypass it first thing tomorrow.

I'm leaning towards pushing it over a hill at this point
 
This may sound stupid but, did you replace the battery before this problem came up? I once bought a new battery for my car, not my Barracuda, but it was a little too tall and the positive post or clamp would sometimes touch the hood and short out. The car would die but would start up. I guess it happened when the body would twist on a turn or dip in the road. Now maybe your alt is fried? Worth a check. Good luck and keep us posted. Cudadriver
 
Took my alternator to A-Zone today and found out it was shot. Less than 100 miles on it. They handed me a new one, brought it home and now charging nicely. Took the thing for a short ride, idled it in my garage for a long time and damn if it didn't die. That issue is still not resolved......unless it was the ignition switch.

I planned to bypass the ammeter today and what a fiasco! Can't get to it from under the dash, couldn't even get my dash out! I'm assuming the speedo cable, heater controls and other junk has to be unbolted first.
I actually had the dash panel out about an inch, but it wouldn't move any further.

What is the easiest way to get to the back of the ammeter?
 
You usually (after disconnecting the battery) loosen the steering column and let it hang down a bit. A bodies used a metal clip similar to the one in your trunk for the wiring to the tail lights. It is located just above the speedometer cable just at the back of the instrument panel and it holds your under dash wiring, that is probably what is holding you up. Be careful when you are removing your instrument cluster, you should be able to get it out far enough to disconnect the amp meter after that it will come out after you CAREFULLY unplug the wiring from the board/boards.
If I were you I would only get your cluster out far enough to remove and clean up the connections of the amp meter and reconnect them securely to eliminate that from the equation. I seriously doubt that your gauge will cause intermittent problems like you are having. But the connections are another story, I found mine loose on many A-Bodies I have owned.
 
You might be right about the ammeter. I drove around today for 45 minutes, and no stalling. Ran perfect. It's hard for me to enjoy it, cause I keep waiting for it to happen again, but I'm hoping the ignition switch was the fix.

After my ammeter bypass ATTEMPT yesterday, I checked every single wire off the firewall connector. I mean I unwrapped everything....cleaned everything, re-wrapped it all and then checked the connector inside the car.

I guess if it does rear it's ugly head again, the ammeter will have to get bypassed. There's nothing else left......I think:)
 
Let's keep our fingers crossed that you got it fixed, just for your information I just picked up a 1965 Barracuda that had the ammeter bypassed for whatever reason I don't know. I hooked it back up and made sure everything was tight and clean, no problems. I hope you don't have any electrical problems so you can enjoy your car more.
Guy
 
Ignition coils can go bad heats up opens cools down closes just a thought easy to try a different one.
 
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