large sector shaft quick ratio pitman

[racerdude5]

Is Firm Feel the only company that makes the quick ratio arms for large sector shaft boxes? Also, are all the aftermarket quick ratio idler arms the same length? I would like to get the Firm Feel quick ratio pitman arm for the large sector shaft and then get the fast ratio idler from ProForged because it costs half as much and includes the hardware. Thoughts?

 

[AJ/FormS]

If this is for a street car, I (having never used them), cant see an advantage to them.They will just get you into trouble faster. And THEORETICALLY speaking, your toe setting better be spot on and remain spot on, or a tendency to wander and constant correction,or road surfaces with longitudinal ruts like semi tracks, may take all the fun out of it.
For me, my Formula S has never needed more than regular P/S, albeit desensitized, and fit with a Saginaw pump, and a pressure mod.
For auto crossing, new story.No experience to speak of.
JMO

 

[72bluNblu]

The standard power steering ratio is 16:1, which isn't horrible. That said, and having both the standard 16:1 power steering in my Challenger and a 16:1 Flaming River manual box in my Duster, I can see how 12:1 would be an advantage. My understanding is that's what the Hotchkis Challenger runs, courtesy of a Howe 1.5:1 steering quickner. I'd love to run that in my Duster, holy go-cart Batman. But my little stick arms wouldn't be able to turn the 275's up front fast enough if I did that, I'd have to go power.

Keep in mine that not all headers clear the fast ratio pitman and idler arms. Firm Feel has a pretty decent list of what fits and what doesn't. In theory, mixing and maxing them shouldn't make a difference, I think all of them are set up to create a 12:1 final ratio. So, they SHOULD be the same length. But with that said, I have a personal policy of trying not to mix and match parts that work as a pair. Seems to have adverse affects, even if it shouldn't in theory.

 

[racerdude5]

Fair enough. Thanks for the input. I'm actually wanting a quick ratio kit to increase the steering angle my car has a little bit, since I want to go drifting I may need it.

 

[72bluNblu]

Fair enough. Thanks for the input. I'm actually wanting a quick ratio kit to increase the steering angle my car has a little bit, since I want to go drifting I may need it.

It won't do that. The steering stops are the steering stops regardless of the ratio, and only shortening the steering stops is going to get you more angle. Some lower ball joints do have taller steering stops on them than others.

But more than likely, all it will get you is tire interference. With the 275/35/18's up front on my Duster the tires touch the frame just before I hit the steering stops. I'm going to add a little more spacer to keep that from happening even though its just a slight rub at full lock, but without more fender mods than I've already done I can't see getting anything more than the stock steering angle. And although my tires are pretty wide, they aren't really tall, they only come in at 25.6".

And compared to a lot of modern cars, the A-bodies actually have a pretty tight turning radius. Most of the AWD/FWD cars have pretty wide turning radii because of the way the transaxle and everything works. I know my Duster would turn circles around my old SRT4, no problem at all. Maybe some of the inline engine RWD cars have slightly better numbers, but you'd need pretty narrow framerails and a pretty wide track to do much better.

 

[racerdude5]

Well what I'm doing is quick ratio arms with ground down stops. I'm going to grind them down so that there will be about 3/16 between frame and tire. I've done some measuring and I'll get some out of it.

 

[72bluNblu]

Well what I'm doing is quick ratio arms with ground down stops. I'm going to grind them down so that there will be about 3/16 between frame and tire. I've done some measuring and I'll get some out of it.

You still won't need the quick ratio arms to take advantage of that.

 

[racerdude5]

I won't? The steering box has more movement than the stops allow?

 

[72bluNblu]

I won't? The steering box has more movement than the stops allow?

Yup.

I mean, it's not infinite, but given the geometry of everything else in the steering even if you removed the stops completely you probably wouldn't max out the steering box. The tires will hit the frame before the steering box maxes out, unless maybe you're running 24" tall tires or something.

And like I said earlier, compare the steering angle of your A-body to some of the AWD cars out there. I bet it already has more than some.

 

[racerdude5]

A lot further?

 

[72bluNblu]

Sorry, I was still editing. ;)

No, not a lot further, but I would guess that you'd run out of clearance before you run out of steering box. You'll run out of room to the frame and upper control arms pretty quick if you have decent sized tires up front.

I know that the steering box isn't maxed out on any of my cars. They all either hit the stops, or other hard parts (frame) before the steering box stops turning. I've never checked exactly how much further it will go, but, like I said, I would bet that unless you're running really narrow, really short tires it won't buy you much at all.

On my duster I had to change to tubular UCA's because my 18x9's with 6.2" of effective backspace were hitting the UCA's at full suspension droop well before I hit the steering stops.

And realistically, you're not going to gain all that much. I mean, the turning radius on a Demon is listed at 37.6 feet. A brand new 2015 Subaru WRX is listed at 35.4'. Yes, that's 2.2 feet, but think about how many, or more likely, what fraction, of steering angle degrees that is.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I wouldn't worry about it. At all. Certainly not now. If and when you get the car to a drift competition and you find yourself constantly at full lock, maybe. But realistically, even if you use fast ratio arms and remove the steering stops, you won't get much.

 

[racerdude5]

Yeah it won't be much. We'll see how it does. As far as rebuilding the steering box to get rid of any slack, what do you guys recommend? I like the feel of the steering on my car the way it is, for driving on the street at least, I just want to make the steering feel tight like a Mercedes (new car). Since I put some stick Kumho 215s up front I noticed more play when I'm going down the road and it becomes a pain when trying to keep the wheel dead straight.

 

[racerdude5]

I prefer the rebuild myself route due to the cost BTW. Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[72bluNblu]

I prefer the rebuild myself route due to the cost BTW. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Buy something new. Not rebuilt new, but actually new. Which pretty much limits you to a Flaming river manual box, or a Borgeson/Delphi box (but even some of those are rebuilt!).

The problem is that even rebuilding the steering box doesn't usually take all of the play out of the box. That's assuming of course that the play in your steering is actually in the box, and not in the steering coupler, tie rods, pitman/idler, control arm bushings, etc. Usually a lot of it is in the steering coupler.

If it is actually in the box, the on center dead spot in the steering is a worn spot on the worm gear. Since replacement worm gears haven't been available for some time (or at all in some cases), that means even a rebuilt box has the same old worm gear. The bearings and seals will tighten it up a little, but you'll still have some on center steering play.

Mopar performance used to sell these

Which is a 20:1 manual steering worm gear, #4007612. But, not anymore. There are some still floating around out there, but they only work for the manual steering boxes. I have one I managed to get from Mancini awhile back before they dried up, but I'm keeping it.

Your best bet would be to call Dick at Firm Feel, and ask him what the story is on worm gears for power steering boxes. As far as I know, they haven't been available forever, and there aren't any brand new Mopar boxes being built. He may have some parts stashed away though.