LCA Bushings and Other Bushings

[RustyRatRod]

Right, no bushing, although there might be some adjustable strut rods with bushings that I haven’t seen. Ain’t no way I’d buy a set of adjustable strut rods with any kind of bushing on the heim end except the solid bushings like the QA1’s have.

EDIT: I just did a quick search and I see that PST and Mancini evidently have adjustable strut rods with poly bushings. I’m just not sure I like that. Even poly bushings will move and to me, the point of the adjustable strut rod is to get a solid link between the LCA and the frame.

I hadn't seen those. You sure they're poly and not black billet? The video James does on the PST site has black billet biscuits, but they look like poly. They clearly "clank" in the video and he actually says they're billet. I agree though......I wouldn't want poly or delrin "there" either. If I HAD to have one or the other besides steel or aluminum, I'd want rubber, because the poly or delrin I think would crack or break over time. I think the solid metal ones are probably best.

 

[Lowcar]

this is a informative thread. i have a question concerning the installation of the QA1 struts. on the lca arm end the factory's rod uses a shouldered 5/8 end for a nice fit in the 5/8's lca hole, now with all this precision fit QA1 stuff why is the lca bolt a 9/16's and no shoulder just threads, makes for a sloppy fit. what have you done to address this are is it only a concern to me?

 

[512Stroker]

What do y'all think about poly bushing or nylon bushings?

After much research I rebuilt the front suspension of my 67 Barracuda with poly PST bushings and it worked out very well.
I think it not advisable to mix rubber with poly ie do it all in rubber our do it all in poly.
Either way I can recommend to box the factory LCA's to keep them tight.

 

[autoxcuda]

After much research I rebuilt the front suspension of my 67 Barracuda with poly PST bushings and it worked out very well.
I think it not advisable to mix rubber with poly ie do it all in rubber our do it all in poly.
Either way I can recommend to box the factory LCA's to keep them tight.

I’ve mixed rubber and poly for decades.

I ran poly strut rob bushings, poly LCA bushings, rubber offset UCA bushings, poly sway bar bushings.

I ran rubber LCA bushings from 93 to 97.

my rubber offset UCA bushings were still good 1993-2011. The spherical rod end UCA’s were loose in a few years of limited driving.

 

[72bluNblu]

this is a informative thread. i have a question concerning the installation of the QA1 struts. on the lca arm end the factory's rod uses a shouldered 5/8 end for a nice fit in the 5/8's lca hole, now with all this precision fit QA1 stuff why is the lca bolt a 9/16's and no shoulder just threads, makes for a sloppy fit. what have you done to address this are is it only a concern to me?

Better show a picture of what you’re talking about. The QA1 strut rods don’t use a bolt at the LCA, the use a double adjuster that has a shoulder. And the others that do use a bolt use the tubular body of the strut rod to create a tight fit against the LCA. I have used both styles and haven’t had an issue with either.

After much research I rebuilt the front suspension of my 67 Barracuda with poly PST bushings and it worked out very well.
I think it not advisable to mix rubber with poly ie do it all in rubber our do it all in poly.
Either way I can recommend to box the factory LCA's to keep them tight.

That’s fine if that’s your opinion, but plenty of people run poly and rubber bushings together without any negative effects.

I’ve mixed rubber and poly for decades.

I ran poly strut rob bushings, poly LCA bushings, rubber offset UCA bushings, poly sway bar bushings.

I ran rubber LCA bushings from 93 to 97.

my rubber offset UCA bushings were still good 1993-2011. The spherical rod end UCA’s were loose in a few years of limited driving.

Exactly. Lot of people run the offset UCA bushings (rubber) with poly lowers.

 

[autoxcuda]

this is a informative thread. i have a question concerning the installation of the QA1 struts. on the lca arm end the factory's rod uses a shouldered 5/8 end for a nice fit in the 5/8's lca hole, now with all this precision fit QA1 stuff why is the lca bolt a 9/16's and no shoulder just threads, makes for a sloppy fit. what have you done to address this are is it only a concern to me?

I believe the hotchkis ones have an unthreaded shoulder area.

 

[512Stroker]

I’ve mixed rubber and poly for decades.

I ran poly strut rob bushings, poly LCA bushings, rubber offset UCA bushings, poly sway bar bushings.

I ran rubber LCA bushings from 93 to 97.

my rubber offset UCA bushings were still good 1993-2011. The spherical rod end UCA’s were loose in a few years of limited driving.

Cool I am glad mixing bushings works for you and I sure others.
IMO I think keeping the durometer of the bushing material the same throughout the suspension pieces will keep the loading even and movements will happen at the same rate. Probably not going to make a big difference for a street application but I will take any advantage I can get.
Nothing wrong with rubber bushings I do like the idea of being able to grease ploy bushing, just have to use the correct grease and it aint cheap $$$.

 

[Lowcar]

Better show a picture of what you’re talking about. The QA1 strut rods don’t use a bolt at the LCA, the use a double adjuster that has a shoulder. And the others that do use a bolt use the tubular body of the strut rod to create a tight fit against the LCA. I have used both styles and haven’t had an issue with either.

okay double adjuster is what we will call it even thou you only adjust one end, the end that go's in the LCA do's not adjust it tighten's up against the arm and that hex head in the center is not a shoulder. a shoulder is that smooth part right under the head of a bolt that has no threads. QA1 is what i have and i'm saying it just don't seem right putting a 9/16 threaded bolt in a 5/8ths hole where a 5/8ths shouldered factory strut end came out of. tomorrow i'm going to call QA1 and ask. i agree it probably won't hurt anything but it isn't right. QA1 charges very well for there products i expect a well made product

 

[Ironracer]

Better show a picture of what you’re talking about. The QA1 strut rods don’t use a bolt at the LCA, the use a double adjuster that has a shoulder. And the others that do use a bolt use the tubular body of the strut rod to create a tight fit against the LCA. I have used both styles and haven’t had an issue with either.



That’s fine if that’s your opinion, but plenty of people run poly and rubber bushings together without any negative effects.



Exactly. Lot of people run the offset UCA bushings (rubber) with poly lowers.

What about using the ofsett rubber UCA bushings in the front and poly in the rear?

 

[72bluNblu]

Cool I am glad mixing bushings works for you and I sure others.
IMO I think keeping the durometer of the bushing material the same throughout the suspension pieces will keep the loading even and movements will happen at the same rate. Probably not going to make a big difference for a street application but I will take any advantage I can get.
Nothing wrong with rubber bushings I do like the idea of being able to grease ploy bushing, just have to use the correct grease and it aint cheap $$$.

I mean, do you think that the upper and lower bushings get loaded at the same time with the same exact load? In the same direction? Because ultimately they do not. Right off the bat the loads from the upper ball joint are split between the two upper bushings, the lower bushing takes all the load without splitting any. And the LCA carries all the spring forces, plus the damper. The bushings aren’t the same diameter, the bushing material isn’t the same thickness. If everything was identical there might be more of an argument to make, but none of it is equal to begin with.

okay double adjuster is what we will call it even thou you only adjust one end, the end that go's in the LCA do's not adjust it tighten's up against the arm and that hex head in the center is not a shoulder. a shoulder is that smooth part right under the head of a bolt that has no threads. QA1 is what i have and i'm saying it just don't seem right putting a 9/16 threaded bolt in a 5/8ths hole where a 5/8ths shouldered factory strut end came out of. tomorrow i'm going to call QA1 and ask. i agree it probably won't hurt anything but it isn't right. QA1 charges very well for there products i expect a well made product

It’s a double adjuster because it allows the strut rod to be adjusted independently from its attachment point. You never have to unload the nut that holds tension on the strut rod and the shoulder of the adjuster. Which is a big reason why there’s nothing to be concerned about. I’ve run the QA1 style strut rods on my Challenger for 70k street miles without a single issue.

For that matter, the other popular style of adjustable strut rod out there uses a regular bolt to go through the LCA and tightens directly into the strut rod. That has the same shoulder problem, and is single adjustable, so the tension on that bolt and the rear strut rod attachment point will change.

I’ve run both styles without issue, although the QA1 style is better because it’s easier to adjust the proper length using the double adjuster. The QA1 strut rods are also not the most expensive adjustable strut rod out there, they’re actually cheaper than several of the other options.

What about using the ofsett rubber UCA bushings in the front and poly in the rear?

Are you worried about running torsion bars up front and leaf springs out back? They don’t act exactly the same under load either. Or independent suspension up front and a live axle out back? Big differences there. Bottom line is no.

I like running all one bushing material because it makes lubricating everything easier. But other than that, you’re splitting hairs.

 

[512Stroker]

I mean, do you think that the upper and lower bushings get loaded at the same time with the same exact load? In the same direction? Because ultimately they do not. Right off the bat the loads from the upper ball joint are split between the two upper bushings, the lower bushing takes all the load without splitting any. And the LCA carries all the spring forces, plus the damper. The bushings aren’t the same diameter, the bushing material isn’t the same thickness. If everything was identical there might be more of an argument to make, but none of it is equal to begin with.



It’s a double adjuster because it allows the strut rod to be adjusted independently from its attachment point. You never have to unload the nut that holds tension on the strut rod and the shoulder of the adjuster. Which is a big reason why there’s nothing to be concerned about. I’ve run the QA1 style strut rods on my Challenger for 70k street miles without a single issue.

For that matter, the other popular style of adjustable strut rod out there uses a regular bolt to go through the LCA and tightens directly into the strut rod. That has the same shoulder problem, and is single adjustable, so the tension on that bolt and the rear strut rod attachment point will change.

I’ve run both styles without issue, although the QA1 style is better because it’s easier to adjust the proper length using the double adjuster. The QA1 strut rods are also not the most expensive adjustable strut rod out there, they’re actually cheaper than several of the other options.



Are you worried about running torsion bars up front and leaf springs out back? They don’t act exactly the same under load either. Or independent suspension up front and a live axle out back? Big differences there. Bottom line is no.

I like running all one bushing material because it makes lubricating everything easier. But other than that, you’re splitting hairs.

Say and do what you want it doesn't matter to me.
I'll stick to using like materials where available.
And as stated in my prior post I do like the fact that the poly bushings are greaseable, big advantage, as my 5 year old rubber parts installed by a prior owner squeaked like a *****.

 

[mopowers]

Say and do what you want it doesn't matter to me.
I'll stick to using like materials where available.
And as stated in my prior post I do like the fact that the poly bushings are greaseable, big advantage, as my 5 year old rubber parts installed by a prior owner squeaked like a *****.

You had rubber bushings squeak??

 

[512Stroker]

You had rubber bushings squeak??

Yes terribly
I never could pin point which ones were the offender's, but I believe it was the upper control arm bushings.
Know that I replaced them all with poly bushings a properly lubricated them - zero squeaks.
Next is to replace the junk KYB shocks.

 

[Ironracer]

I mean, do you think that the upper and lower bushings get loaded at the same time with the same exact load? In the same direction? Because ultimately they do not. Right off the bat the loads from the upper ball joint are split between the two upper bushings, the lower bushing takes all the load without splitting any. And the LCA carries all the spring forces, plus the damper. The bushings aren’t the same diameter, the bushing material isn’t the same thickness. If everything was identical there might be more of an argument to make, but none of it is equal to begin with.



It’s a double adjuster because it allows the strut rod to be adjusted independently from its attachment point. You never have to unload the nut that holds tension on the strut rod and the shoulder of the adjuster. Which is a big reason why there’s nothing to be concerned about. I’ve run the QA1 style strut rods on my Challenger for 70k street miles without a single issue.

For that matter, the other popular style of adjustable strut rod out there uses a regular bolt to go through the LCA and tightens directly into the strut rod. That has the same shoulder problem, and is single adjustable, so the tension on that bolt and the rear strut rod attachment point will change.

I’ve run both styles without issue, although the QA1 style is better because it’s easier to adjust the proper length using the double adjuster. The QA1 strut rods are also not the most expensive adjustable strut rod out there, they’re actually cheaper than several of the other options.



Are you worried about running torsion bars up front and leaf springs out back? They don’t act exactly the same under load either. Or independent suspension up front and a live axle out back? Big differences there. Bottom line is no.

I like running all one bushing material because it makes lubricating everything easier. But other than that, you’re splitting hairs.

I'm running the poly bushings out back. I'm sorry I don't think I clarified it properly. I have poly bushings in the rear of my upper control arms and one of the rubber bushings on each side in the front...

 

[512Stroker]

I'm running the poly bushings out back. I'm sorry I don't think I clarified it properly. I have poly bushings in the rear of my upper control arms and one of the rubber bushings on each side in the front...

Way would you install one poly and one rubber bushing in the same UCA?

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

Way would you install one poly and one rubber bushing in the same UCA?

A better question is, when delrin is available, why would anyone use rubber or poly? I get it.... Most people don't even know what delrin is....

Delrin lasts forever, is quiet and precise. I have delrin lower bushings and delrin bushings in my gen 1 SPC arms as well. Bergmanautocraft.com

 

[Ricks70Duster340]

okay double adjuster is what we will call it even thou you only adjust one end, the end that go's in the LCA do's not adjust it tighten's up against the arm and that hex head in the center is not a shoulder. a shoulder is that smooth part right under the head of a bolt that has no threads. QA1 is what i have and i'm saying it just don't seem right putting a 9/16 threaded bolt in a 5/8ths hole where a 5/8ths shouldered factory strut end came out of. tomorrow i'm going to call QA1 and ask. i agree it probably won't hurt anything but it isn't right. QA1 charges very well for there products i expect a well made product

Did you call QA1 about this? What did they say? My strut bars are making noise when I go over bumps. That cannot be good and may even wallow out the LCA hole in time.

 

[Lowcar]

Did you call QA1 about this? What did they say? My strut bars are making noise when I go over bumps. That cannot be good and may even wallow out the LCA hole in time.

i tried calling several times and was put on hold due to a recording saying heavy volumes of calls. i decided what i was going to do is either ream out lower control arm out to 3/4 and make a bushing or the correct way would be to throw that pos end that QA1 supplies and machine a new correct end, which is what i will probably do. someone stated yea but there cheaper you get what you pay for more expence in the long run

 

[Ricks70Duster340]

i tried calling several times and was put on hold due to a recording saying heavy volumes of calls. i decided what i was going to do is either ream out lower control arm out to 3/4 and make a bushing or the correct way would be to throw that pos end that QA1 supplies and machine a new correct end, which is what i will probably do. someone stated yea but there cheaper you get what you pay for more expence in the long run

Thanks for that update. Seems really strange that they would have two parts that did not fit properly. If those bars were truly OE replacements, then why not a 5/8" end? For the cost of those bars, you'd think....

 

[Lowcar]

Thanks for that update. Seems really strange that they would have two parts that did not fit properly. If those bars were truly OE replacements, then why not a 5/8" end? For the cost of those bars, you'd think....

my guess that end is a off the shelf item that they get really cheap and to have one made that fit's would cost them a little extra.

 

[512Stroker]

i tried calling several times and was put on hold due to a recording saying heavy volumes of calls. i decided what i was going to do is either ream out lower control arm out to 3/4 and make a bushing or the correct way would be to throw that pos end that QA1 supplies and machine a new correct end, which is what i will probably do. someone stated yea but there cheaper you get what you pay for more expence in the long run

Return the QA1 LCA's then rebuild and box a set of factory LCA's they work very well and guess what - they FIT!

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

Return the QA1 LCA's then rebuild and box a set of factory LCA's they work very well and guess what - they FIT!

And use my pins, delrins and box plates!

 

[Lowcar]

Return the QA1 LCA's then rebuild and box a set of factory LCA's they work very well and guess what - they FIT!

it's not the LCA it's there strut rod's. and after looking at there LCA i did box the stock LCA with my own 3/16's plates. the ones on line for sale are made of 14 gauge sheet metal for 40 dollars

 

[Ricks70Duster340]

it's not the LCA it's there strut rod's. and after looking at there LCA i did box the stock LCA with my own 3/16's plates. the ones on line for sale are made of 14 gauge sheet metal for 40 dollars

I am returning my QA1 strut bars because they do not fit properly and I'm tired of messing with them. Bought them through Summit, so the return should be no big deal. Ordered a set of PST bars to replace them. The writeup for those bars even says they have 5/8" bolts.

 

[Ceedawg]

Update on lower control arm, do yours move this easy? Can’t do video so I’ll do stills, very easy to go up and down and stays true. If anyone knows how to show vid let me know