Frank Mopar
Well-Known Member
Looks like my lower control arms are walking out of the bushing. Rebuilt the whole front end couple years ago and I remembered these pins were not difficult to put in. Both sides are the same.What do you think?
LCA walking off the pin
- Thread starter Frank Mopar
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1WildRT
Well-Known Member
I think you have the Moog bushings that were made with the pin bore oversize... Should be a press fit...
Frank Mopar
Well-Known Member
Hmmm that could be. I don’t remember anything about oversize. I know I replaced bushing and rubber. Thank you!
1WildRT
Well-Known Member
There was nothing about them being oversize, they were/are being sold as correct.... But.... China... I think that covers it....
Frank Mopar
Well-Known Member
Question is where/who should I buy the replacements kit from.
remytherat
Well-Known Member
Make sure the t bars are all the way in. They shouldn't let this happen.
Frank Mopar
Well-Known Member
That’s what I thought but the t bars are all the way in with the clips installed.
looks awful grungy up in that piece. i'd check to make sure that the oil/grease/heat and what not hasn't deteriorated the bushing and it's just flopping around in there. also give a hairy eyeball to mount points on the K and make sure that they're not all wallered out as well.
but if'n they wasn't tight to begin with, then it was down hill from there and they're probably waxed *** anyway.
but if'n they wasn't tight to begin with, then it was down hill from there and they're probably waxed *** anyway.
Frank Mopar
Well-Known Member
I’m going to pull it apart and give it the eye. Thanks
Frank Mopar
Well-Known Member
Look at replacement options. If the pins I have look like this picture then they are on all the way.
Just keep drivin it. You'll find out exactly what it is eventually. lol
1WildRT
Well-Known Member
Lots of info here..............
LCA pin loose in bushing
LCA pin loose in bushing
Icetech
Well-Known Member
It's not chinas fault.. the manufacturer is supposed to have QA and not just take **** and sell it without making sure it's correct
Frank Mopar
Well-Known Member
It my street car but my daughter like to race it so I need to be sure. Now if my wife was driving it I wouldn’t give a ****.
It my street car but my daughter like to race it so I need to be sure. Now if my wife was driving it I wouldn’t give a ****.
1WildRT
Well-Known Member
I agree, but I'd much rather they bring production back to the USA...It's not chinas fault.. the manufacturer is supposed to have QA and not just take **** and sell it without making sure it's correct
Icetech
Well-Known Member
yup.. $400 pins with the same issues will be great..
I'm waiting , Where is he?
Are the LCA's actually loose on the pins? Or are you just concerned about the gap between the bushing and the K frame? It's hard to tell from your picture exactly what's going on there.
With rubber bushings there's always a section of exposed pin. This picture shows an absolutely hammered rubber bushing, but it also shows where the K frame sits, and how the inner shell of the rubber bushing fits on the pin and lines up with the outer bushing shell and stops flush at the step on the pin that's there for the inner shell. While the bushing is this picture is smoked, the gap between the edge of the rubber bushing and the shoulder for the K frame is normal, and the inner shell is correctly located on the pin.
This is a QA1 LCA, but it shows what a new OE style rubber LCA bushing should look like, even with a new reproduction pin/pivot
It's hard to tell from the original picture, but inspect the rubber to see if it's torn or cracked. If the rubber is in good condition you probably won't be able to see the edge of the inner shell, but it should be flush against the step on the pivot pin. If there's any stepped down section of pin showing that would show that the bushing isn't fully seated. But the gap between the bushing and the shoulder of the pin for the K is normal with OE style LCA bushings.
Figured you'd handle it since it's about OE style rubber bushings and inferior reproduction OE parts, thought you were the expert on those?
Frank Mopar
Well-Known Member
72bluNblu thank you for the schooling. So there is just grime around the exposed part of the pin. Those bushing look to be in great shape. My fault for not remembering thats what they looked like after I put them in.
Woody500
Well-Known Member
Put Poly bushings in my 65 Barracuda and Silicone grease is provided to coat bushing & you reuse rubber bushing sleeve & grease it when installing. There were no 'Greasable pivot pins' as available now to avoid the squeaking that follows, or I'd've drilled pins for a zerk in my lathe. As it was I could see it was going to slide & I drilled & tapped pin & installed a 1/4" countersunk gr8 allen screw with an alum cs retaining washer to stop bushing sliding. Red locktite to keep from loosening.
Only 10 miles put on it since so still wondering if it works.
Only 10 miles put on it since so still wondering if it works.
No worries!
Completely unnecessary, and depending on which bushings you’re using the collar will keep the LCA from being fully installed on the pivot, and locate it too far back relative to the K frame.
There are several reasons why thinking the LCA can slide backward on the pivot pins far enough to cause problems when using a poly bushing is just plain lunacy. In order for the LCA and poly bushing to slide backward on the pin-
- the LCA socket would either have to slide on the torsion bar hex, or the entire torsion bar would have to slide in the sockets. That’s not gonna happen with the torsion bar under load, anyone that’s changed out a set of torsion bars knows that
- the strut rod would have to exceed its normal range of motion, otherwise it would keep the LCA within the factory designed location (which is why it’s there at all)
- if somehow both of those things happened, the LCA still wouldn’t come off the pin unless the torsion bar came completely out past the clip, because the overlap of the bushing on the pin is several times larger than the largest possible gap between the torsion bar and the clip.
The bottom line is the friction fit between the rubber bushings and the inner and outer bushing shells has never been what holds the LCA in place or locates it, so that’s not something that has to be replicated when you switch to poly or delrin bushings.
Woody500
Well-Known Member
As stated previously there is no inner sleeve that comes with poly bushings(12yr ago, don't know about now)and you cut rubber off of sleeve while still on pin, clean vulcanized remnant off, grease sleeve inside and out, then install. Original bushings are molded & sleeves are basically glued to shell when molded. It's part of the reason they fail as the rubber is doing all the twisting with a thin cross section and can't last.
Woody500
Well-Known Member
And no way can it ever slide over torsion bar hex, so what are you talking about!
Yes, I am fully aware of how some of the poly LCA bushings install by re-using the original inner and outer shells on a stock pivot pin.
With that style of bushing, the shoulder of the new poly bushing is meant to butt up against the shoulder of the LCA pivot pin. If it is not then the LCA is not fully installed on the pivot. If you put an unnecessary retaining collar on there, the bushing and LCA are not fully installed on the pivot.
Original bushings are not bonded or glued, the rubber is friction fit between the shells.
Please re-read what I said. The bushing doesn’t go over the hex end. If you look at the pictures above of a properly installed poly LCA bushing, you see that the bushing is sandwiched between the LCA and the shoulder on the pivot pin. For the bushing to slide back on the pivot, the entire LCA has to slide backwards, which would require the LCA hex socket sliding on the torsion bar hex end, or the entire torsion bar sliding back. Neither or which will happen with any load on the torsion bar.
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