Lifter question?

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myasylum

myasylum

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I do believe I have a lifter tick.
This may sound dumb to some of you, but I really have no idea...

How should I go about this? Can I take off the Valve cover, and can I use a telescoping magnet to pull out the lifter? If the lifter compresses by hand it's bad? Can I maybe locate the lifter to a different location to see if the tick moves? The engine only has 150 mi on it.

Can I replace with new lifters without taking of the intake?

Thanks much!
 
The lifter should not compress easily by hand, it may be bad. Yes, depending on what engine you have you can replace a lifter without removing the intake. Just remove the valve cover and rocker arms and you can pull it with a strong magnet. You may have to walk it around to find the proper opening to pull it through. I`ve done it with my stock 68 340.
 
A stethoscope makes chasing noises much simpler. You might fashion a crude one from a length of hose. It works remarkably well. Pull the valve covers and listen to one at a time until you find the one (or more) that sounds different and chase it from there.

As to moving a lifter to another lobe: only if it's of the roller variety. In a flat tappet valvetrain, the lobes and lifters wear together in a specific way (as a function of lifter bore center relative to lobe position). Disturbing the match would likely result in munched parts.
 
Just a few questions need to be answered on the tic sound... The stethoscope is the way to go and can be bought at your local parts store for under $10.00... You say that there is only 150 miles on this engine, was it a total rebuild with new parts and what kind of cam was installed in the engine? So question number 2 is did you use the recomended break in procedures of the cam manufacture on start up? Question number 3 are you sure that it is a lifter tic and not a exhuast leak... Not saying that I'm a pro or anything but I have always broke in motors on start up and after running it in the driveway and breaking in the cam I would change the oil and filter after the breakin and all adjustments were made... This will remove metal shavings and what have you from the oil as parts conform to there places.. Question number 4 is Did you, or some shop build the engine? If a shop rebuilt the engine they should take care of the problem for you.. Question number 5 when the engine is at opperating temp in gear at idle what kind of oil pressure do you have... Question number 6 is the sound only at start up and then goes away, or is it still there even after the engine is warm... After you determan that it isn't a exhuast leak, before you tare into the engine if you rebuilt it yourself Make Sure that it is getting oil to the rocker gear first, and can be done by removing one vale cover at a time and the rockers should have oil on them... Just my opinion... John(onecatnodog)Collins
 
1. It was a total rebuild, with new parts. and it is a flat tappet Lunati Cam and lifters.
2. Yes, I did everything that was recommended. Primed the engine, idled at 3,000 for 20 min. ect...
3. I changed the oil after about 100 mi, and I now am using Joe Gibbs Hot Rod oil. I also re-tightened all the header bolts, but...? I guess it still could be a gasket leak, huh?
4. A shop built the engine, but I am not real keen on the idea of going back there again.
5. oil pressure at idle, warm is around 20lbs-40lbs driving normally 60lbs.
6. The tick sound is constant . It's not real loud, (then again my exhaust is pretty loud.) The noise doesn't get any louder under any load, of any kind. (would that rule out something more serious like rod knock?)
7. I have pulled the valve cover and there seems to be oil getting everywhere.

Question? If it is bad to change lifters around... wouldn't it be bad to install a new lifter then since there would be no wear pattern at all on the new lifter?

If I take off the valve cover when running to check for noise would I not then get oil spraying all over??

Sorry of these questions sound stupid. Thanks!
 
Only the un asked question is a stupid one... Flat tappett cams make some noise un like hyd. cams and the valves have to have the lash set on them after break in...
 
myasylum said:
1.

Question? If it is bad to change lifters around... wouldn't it be bad to install a new lifter then since there would be no wear pattern at all on the new lifter? no, there will not be a wear pattern on the new lifter, it will wear to the cam lobe.

If I take off the valve cover when running to check for noise would I not then get oil spraying all over?? some yes... only do one at a time, and you can also take an old stock steel valve cover and cut the top out of it, making a ring around the valve train. That will keep a lot of the oil in and make less of a mess.

Sorry of these questions sound stupid. Thanks!
Click to expand...

flat tappet... solid lifters then and not hydraulic? solid will not compress....so, why would you move them around? If they are solid, you adjust the rocker arms.
 
69B-Cuda said:
flat tappet... solid lifters then and not hydraulic? solid will not compress....so, why would you move them around? If they are solid, you adjust the rocker arms.
Click to expand...
I believe he's running a hydraulic flat tappet setup.
 
Yes, this one...

Brand Lunati
Manufacturer's Part Number 60303LK
Part Type Camshaft and Lifter Kits
Product Line Lunati Voodoo Cam and Lifter Kits
Summit Racing Part Number LUN-60303LK

Cam Style Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range 1,800-6,200
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift 226
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift 234
Duration at 050 inch Lift 226 int./234 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration 268
Advertised Exhaust Duration 276
Advertised Duration 268 int./276 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.494 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.513 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.494 int./0.513 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees) 110
Camshaft Gear Attachment 3-bolt
Intake Valve Lash 0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash 0.000 in.
Computer-Controlled Compatible No
Lifters Included Yes
Lifter Style Hydraulic flat tappet
Valve Springs Included No
Retainers Included No
Locks Included No
Valve Stem Seals Included No
Timing Chain and Gears Included No
Assembly Lubricant Included No
Pushrods Included No
Rocker Arms Included No
Gaskets Included No
Quantity Sold as a kit.
Notes 3-bolt camshaft

I just have the rockers (or shaft) adjusted to 20ft lbs, as the book suggested. Should that maybe be changed for this set up?

Thanks again!
 
Put your hand on the rocker that is ticking, while running, and push towards the lifter, to see if it quiets down. Make that the second option.
first, pull the valve cover and see if that lifter is giving full height at the rocker, while idling.
I just got a bad set of lifters from Napa, after the 3rd one, trying to pump up in a can- no good. Next set from them seem to work- they pumped up in the can. Supposedly American made. Clevite.
 
How much oil will get get all over the floor by running the engine with the valve cover off??

Does 20ft lbs sound correct, for the rocker shaft?

Can I replace just one lifter or should they all be replaced?

Thanks!
 
Your stock rockers should be okay with that cam. It`s not uncommon to get a lifter that won`t pump up. I bought the MP 340 reproduction cam and lifter set and had the same problem. My problem was finding the exact lifter that was the problem, it took me three tries to get it right. Make sure it is a lifter though before you start taking everything apart. As the others have said it`s easy to mistake an exhaust leak with a lifter so make sure you`ve checked out all of those things first. With just 150 miles on the engine I would just replace the one lifter. That`s what I did and several thousand miles later I`ve had no problems.
 
Thanks a lot guys for being patient with me, your all making a lot of sense.
I'm just hoping it's not something even worse, like the beginning stages of rod knock or something??

The odd thing, that is sort of funny, is that I had a slant 6 before this that made a similar noise. My friend made fun of me because it sounded like a sewing machine. I didn't care because I knew I was getting a 360 to rub in his face. Well, now guess what? A different engine with the same damn noise!
I think it's following me, URGH!! :)

How long can you drive a car with a lifter tick before bad things happen? With the slant 6 I didn't care. I just kept driving it and it was fine. With a new engine though, I'm a little more paranoid!
 
myasylum said:
How much oil will get get all over the floor by running the engine with the valve cover off??
Click to expand...
Not too much. You can minimize the mess with a piece of cardboard to catch what would otherwise spill over.

Does 20ft lbs sound correct, for the rocker shaft?
Click to expand...
That sounds about right, off the top of my head. I've taken to grabbing the ratchet around the head with two fingers exerting force on the handle and turning until my fingers submit to the wrench.

Can I replace just one lifter or should they all be replaced?
Click to expand...
Replacing individual lifters should be no problem.
 
doktor_x said:
Not too much. You can minimize the mess with a piece of cardboard to catch what would otherwise spill over.

That sounds about right, off the top of my head. I've taken to grabbing the ratchet around the head with two fingers exerting force on the handle and turning until my fingers submit to the wrench.

Replacing individual lifters should be no problem.
Click to expand...

Just throw rags over the rockers; it ain't a chebby squirting all over,and when I was being trained to be a gmc line tech, the older guys, when one started to squirt good, would take a hammer to the lifter end of the rocker, and smack it hard, in order to pump it down for a few minutes, lol.
The last time I messed with my shaft bolts, I went to the book, at 35 foot lbs; wrung off bolts. Like doktor said- 3/8" ratchet, about 20 lbs. I have run small blocks since 1970, and did it that way; I follow the book- heads in the shop getting heli-coils.
If it is just 1 lifter, pull it out with magnet, take it apart, and clean the inside. then try to pump it up on the bench.
 
Drive it as little as possible. Have you maybe checked to see that it is not the four bolts that hold the flexplate and converter together? They can loosen up after a little while and start to make a kind of ticking noise on the back of the block/ inspection shield. My duster did it after a new converter change even with thread lock and proper torque specs, then the 98 ram plow truck I drive for work was doing it. It's another possibility, ya gotta pull a few bolts and a starter to check it but it may be worth it. ps I made a cut in my inspection shield so I don't have to remove the starter now.
 
wigsplitter74- I planned to do a lot of that today... but as I'm sure you noticed, it was a lot colder out then they said it was going to be! I installed a tach though.

I did take it to a mechanic, and to him it didn't seem like to big of a deal. He seemed to think that all Mopars have "valvetrain noise". He said he just worked on a 440, and made the same type of noise.
His suggestion was since It only has 200mi on the engine, to put another 100mi on it,drain the oil and put 15w40 oil in it, and see if it was better than. He mentioned if the noise got any worse, I should start to tear into it, but for now, not to worry about it.

So he said...
 
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