Looking for Alignment Advice

[Dukester]

I'm looking for some good sound advice on alignment specs for my 73 Duster.

I keep the rear of the car slightly higher than the front & like some extra ground clearance in the front so I don't have as much chance to bang up my headers.

I'm looking for the ground clearance, camber, caster, toe,etc.

Here are some details:

Manual Steering
BF Goodrich T/A's (205/70/14-front & 245/60/14 rear)
Wheels are all 4" backset (7"/front & 8"/rear)
PST Polygraphite Kit
Just Suspension Torsion Bars
Addco Sway Bar

 

[2 Darts]

It would help to know how you intend to use the car; street, drag, autoX. AutoXcuda is one who seems to know a lot about front end setup.

While the suspension can be adjusted from the stock setting for height, doing so compromises the range of suspension travel in one direction or the other. IMO raising the car would put the car on the bump stop sooner in those cases where the wheel needs to be lowered, e.g. a pothole.

 

[grassy]

I took the duster into an alignment shop and was told that the duster was extremely time eintensive and it wouldn't be right to do it because I am replacing the fronts to disc brakes.

However, just watching it drive shows that something it wrong. I mechanic I trust doesn't do alignments.

Is there any way I can do it so it isn't perfectly aligned but close ??

ian.

 

[alsdemon]

they just dont want to set it, are all your adj. free . make sure they will move. allmost all the fwd are toe and go and some of the older stuff takes time you might have to pay them by the hour to set it. good luck

 

[grassy]

I will crawl under it soon.

What the alignment guy said..and he is old school..that you have to set it..take readings nd do this a bunch of times..and he said that the a bodies were a bugger to align.

My dad's backyard mechanic yused to set the alignment for dads delta 88 with jsut a stick.

ian.

 

[Dukester]

I did some skimming through some previous threads.There's a bunch of good info already.

Right now I'm at factory specs & it sucks, I think that the caster is not positive enough. It drives straight as an arrow on good roads & seems to corner well, but when on roads that are not flat (truck grooves) it really sucks. At this point I'm thinking about leaving my ride height where it is...just a bit above stock. With the Just suspension torsions the car doesn't "dip" much. Which will help a bunch in preventing my headers from getting scraped.

The specs I think that I'll have them shoot for are:

Caster: Left +4, Right +4.25
Camber: Left & Right -.25
Toe-In: 1/16"

 

[2 Darts]

It drives straight as an arrow on good roads & seems to corner well, but when on roads that are not flat (truck grooves) it really sucks.

IMO this is affected by the tire. I've found the closer the tire shoulder is to a right angle, the more pronounced this is. I've heard the effect called nibble. A tire with a more rounded shoulder is less likely to exhibit nibble.

The specs I think that I'll have them shoot for are:

Caster: Left +4, Right +4.25
Camber: Left & Right -.25
Toe-In: 1/16"

This is what I shot for on the 73 Dart. The chassis would only give my alignment guy +2º. I took it. Combined with the front end re-build it has sharpened turn-in and raised steering effort considerably. At road speed the power steering is still light on feedback, but it goes where it's pointed NOW.

As for being a bugger to align, the A-body caster/camber is set by rotating eccentric washers at the front and rear of the UCA. It is possible to chase a setting from front to rear and vice versa. It can be frustrating. Most shops are used to being able to add/remove shims to get the job done. It is a more straightforward process.

 

[Babyblue66]

I did some skimming through some previous threads.There's a bunch of good info already.


The specs I think that I'll have them shoot for are:

Caster: Left +4, Right +4.25
Camber: Left & Right -.25
Toe-In: 1/16"

I don't think that will be possible with stock upper control arms. There is not enough adjustment to get that much +caster. I had to lower my Coronet to get just a little caster. My 65 Barracuda has almost no + caster, and thats with positive camber like the factory set it. I plan on putting in some offset upper control arm bushings to get some caster.

 

[Dukester]

Looks like the Caster that I thought I wanted is gonna be tough to get. I'm guessing that I have to just take as much as I can get!

 

[KitCarlson]

With much measuring, a very flat parking spot and a huge amount time and adjustments it is possible to get it correct. Things like 2 long straight edges, square, tape measure, and level are required. It is also possible to buy low cost alignment tools (level based) from race suppliers. A helper to assist in measurements is also an advantage.

Here are the difficulties:

1. The camber and caster are interelated, and are done with the eccentric cam adjustments in the fender well. This is not an easy place to wrench.
2. Any adjustment requires the car to be rolled back and forth, because tires do not slip. Then measurements can be done to see if the adjustment tweek was correct.
3. I find caster hard to measure. If it is not nearly equal side to side the handling can be odd. Giving the max for camber, may result in unequal or not enough caster. There are camber bushings with increased adjustment capability that may help.
4. Toe-in changes slightly with other adjustments. It must be checked and adjusted.
5. Height is fairly easy, it is measured at two lower control arm points and is the difference in measurents. Significant changes require bouncing and rolling the car to check again.

When you get it right the a-body handles great! Right up there with BMW 528 and Porsche 944, I know from significant experience with each.

 

[Mr.Ed]

Caster: Left +4, Right +4.25

Hope you got strong arms.

 

[Dukester]

I do. But really I don't know what to expect even if I could get that much caster...so what does Mr.Ed suggest?

 

[grassy]

Holy cats..if you are trying to scare me, it is working. I just rec'ed my trans and diff back from a truly great person..and I still have a few bucks to spend..and I think safety out weighs shoehorning a v8 into the puppy. I will switch it over to disc..and when we are doing to, put a PST kit into it..I hope they have one for the rear spring holders.. new sway bars..perhaps tires and then get the alignment done..we can always re do it after the engine goes in..not sure if I will have enough coin..

This has been an informative thread. I am pushing this stuff a bit because I have an MIR on my neck soon followed by a neurosurgeon 's visit..he wanted to operate on my upper neck by going through by my adam's apple and well as removing bone from my hip...if it works..I will not be aloud to even fill the dishwasher for 6 months..I have had an osteopath work on my every two weeks tying to fix the 3 vertebra..if it fails, I don't want to think about that...

Grassy

 

[rrvolare]

Do the best you can with the alingment 0 left camber , -.25 right camber , caster on this year lucky to get 1.0 - 1.5 pos deg... Once you get close to this ... then get a AFTERMARKET steering box that will correct alot of your wander you are experiencing ... CHRYCO factory boxes are JUNK!

 

[Mr.Ed]

What ratio steering box do you have? I believe the available ratios are 24:1 (5.5 turns lock to lock,) 20:1 (4.5 turns) or 16:1(3.5 turns.) That's gonna affect how hard the steering wheel is to turn and how responsive the steering feels. The diameter of the steering wheel should also be considered.

Without knowing the steering box ratio, I would suggest no more than 1 deg. positive caster with manual steering. If you have forearms like Popeye, you can shoot for more.

I like camber to be at least -.5 deg. on both sides, more if you want it to corner better. If its gonna be a drag car, the camber should be 0 deg.

 

[grassy]

Mr. Ed,

I am surprised how small a turning radius the duster has..will check tonight.

ian.

 

[Dukester]

Good advice Mr.Ed...I'm 20:1

 

[Dukester]

Well Guys... I had my 73 Duster alignment re-done & you guys were right on the money.

Yesterday I brought the Duster in & had them do it over with the specs that I thought I wanted, based on what I learned from you guys. I also asked what they had for preloaded specs in their rack...would you believe -3.5 caster, +1 camber? So that's where I was, doesn't that sound fun...not!

Over the last 20 years...I could have been driving my car with the smiles I have now. Well maybe not...I didn't have the resources to do the work then.

Now this is where I am... Left Caster +1.0, Right Caster +1.25, -.5 Camber, 1/16' Toe-In & I'm totally happy with how it drives & handles. This was the Max Caster I could get. The steering is heavier, but not at all uncomfortable.

The road I live on has those truck grooves in it & it's crowned pretty heavy. I'm pretty certain that if I had drove 70 mph on it before...I'd have been on the roof of my car in the ditch.

My Duster owns the road now, instead of the road owning it, she drives that road like a dream & I have a highly renewed love for driving my car.

I didn't really know what to expect from the new torsions/PST kit/shocks/sway bar when I dug into my project. But WOW, I don't feel like I'm driving my Grandmas car while going around corners.

I can't wait til winter to start on my 70 Duster in the shop! I've owned it since I was 15 & have only drove it a couple of miles ever...

 

[Mr.Ed]

My Duster owns the road now, instead of the road owning it, she drives that road like a dream & I have a highly renewed love for driving my car.

You just brought a tear to my eye! LOL :cheers: Glad you're happy with it!

As John "Hannibal" Smith would say:"I love it when a plan comes together!"