Loosened Distributor hold down bolt, car won't turn over...

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Saverio

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So after my first attempt of setting the timing on my car and almost scaring myself with electrocution, I decided (probably stupidly), that I would loosen the distributor hold down bolt BEFORE the engine was running. :banghead: Well, I got it loose, went to try to start the car, and got some weird noises. Stopped what I was doing, re-tightened hold down bolt and then got nothing. No cranking over, no noises, nothing.

After searching around the internet, I realize that I may have gotten off TDC.

I'm assuming now I need to get the engine back to TDC. Can you all tell me exactly how to do this?

I've read that the car should be in neutral and to manually turn the engine at the crankshaft until the timing mark is at "0".

Is that correct? I don't have a socket big enough to fit on the crankshaft, does anyone know what size it is?

Live and learn I guess. At least I won't make the same mistake twice.

I hope someone can help.
 
Sounds more likely that you knocked something loose. Loosening the distributor alone will not cause the engine to not turn over.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Sounds more likely that you knocked something loose. Loosening the distributor alone will not cause the engine to not turn over.
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I should clarify - the distributor did get bumped, which caused it to move. I remember where it was and thought I had back in the same exact spot.

Also, I've read others saying they had to replace the ballast resistor - do you think that could have something to do with it?

I'm at loss...
 
OldmanRick said:
Yeah! Hopefully you mean it's still cranking, but it's just not firing?
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Unfortunately no, it's not even cranking over!

I'm not experienced enough to know if bumping the distributor would cause this, so this is why I came and asked here. I just hope I don't get bashed too bad for it.

The engine was running fine, starting fine...until the hold down bolt was loosened and distributor accidentally moved about 10 degrees. I put it back into position and that's when I started getting the weird noise. I stopped for a while to try and research but when I attempted it again, that's when I got nothing at all.
 
I certainly wouldn't bash you, and most here wouldn't either. You do have a odd situation though. With it not turning over out of no where, it sounds like a ground issue that's not related to the dizzy? I'll think on it a bit, and if I come up with something, i'll let you know.
 
If you have the seatbelt interlock-one year for that-1974- that may cause the problem. Make sure the transmission didn't somehow get bumped out of neutral. Then last may be the starter relay. Unless the battery is dead. That's all I can think of. Seat belt interlock is about the size or slightly bigger- than the starter relay and is either located beside that starter relay or on firewall. There is a pushbutton-"reset" switch on that. You can also bypass it. Have to look that up-I don't remember off hand and my car isn't with me right now.
 
OldmanRick said:
I certainly wouldn't bash you, and most here wouldn't either. You do have a odd situation though. With it not turning over out of no where, it sounds like a ground issue that's not related to the dizzy? I'll think on it a bit, and if I come up with something, i'll let you know.
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Thanks Rick. I appreciate that.

It's weird, it was clicking at first but then I got nothing. I'm wondering if a fatigued battery is the issue too. When I just went out to the garage and checked to see if the light came on, they were VERY dim...
 
john27pa said:
If you have the seatbelt interlock-one year for that-1974- that may cause the problem. Make sure the transmission didn't somehow get bumped out of neutral. Then last may be the starter relay. Unless the battery is dead. That's all I can think of. Seat belt interlock is about the size or slightly bigger- than the starter relay and is either located beside that starter relay or on firewall. There is a pushbutton-"reset" switch on that. You can also bypass it. Have to look that up-I don't remember off hand and my car isn't with me right now.
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Yes, it does have the interlock thing. I know of the switch you're talking about and I remember getting advice on how to bypass this (which I will do tomorrow).

Sounds like either the starter relay or battery will be next things to check.

oh, and the ballast resistor will be getting replaced, at least that's a cheap fix.
 
Here's the THING. Your were "back there" around the wring, the bulkhead connector. You might have a 'somewhat' connection, and know you have bumped it loose

You might have bumped it WHILE messing with the bolt, but the bolt / distributor per se is not causing the "no crank" problem

1............IF YOU HAVE the dreaded interlock, BYPASS it, or it will give you future trouble. Look at these threads:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=14304

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1969624169

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1705079

In that reset, the connector has two "yellowish" wires---with tracer. Cut those two and permanently splice them together.

==============================

2............If it still won't crank, it's time to take a breather

get yourself a shop manual. Closest we have for download (free) is a 73. There may be some wiring differences........

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=244981

More of the same here:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

and MyMopar has simplified but sometimes easier to follow diagrams. However they do not show all connectors, and are sometimes incorrect

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1974/74DartA.jpg

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1974/74DartB.jpg

3.........If you don't have same, "arm yourself." Go to RadShack or make them......get a bag or two of clip / test leads. Get a multimeter. Buy a 12V test lamp, and if you don't have one, buy an inline spark tester for checking for spark on your ignition.

=======================================

When you get "all this," time to learn to troubleshoot.

"Workflow" for the cranking signal comes from the ignition switch, through the bulkhead, and if equipped goes through the dreaded seat belt interlock.

Next it goes to one of the two "push on" quick connectors on the starter relay. But the starter relay has a GROUND terminal, the SECOND "push on" terminal.

This second terminal goes down to your neutral safety switch (middle terminal) on the transmission with an automatic, and if you have a manual gearbox, with a clutch safety switch, that wire goes back in through the bulkhead, to the switch on the clutch pedal

EITHER OF THE ABOVE must provide a "ground" for the relay terminal

==========================================

4........How to tell? EASY

"Rig" your test lamp to the yellow wire going to the starter relay "quick connect" terminal. The remaining terminal will go down the firewall to the automatic. Twist the key. No crank? Hear a click? Does the lamp light? If not, you are not getting "crank" power

Most likely a bad connection through the bulkhead, or that seat belt interlock.

If you DO have power? and the relay does not click, or the engine does not crank,

TIME TO check the second terminal. Remove that wire, hook a clip lead temporarily to ground. WATCH IT the car WILL START if it's in gear. MAKE SURE. Try the "key" does it crank now? Yes?

If so, you have a problem with the wiring or the neutral safety switch or linkage adjustment

Hook the wire back up. Hold the key to "start" wile wiggling the shifter lever from park to neutral. Anything? Click? Nothing? Wiring, bad neutral safety switch, or bad connector at the switch

5.......Other problems. The relay itself can be bad. How to test?

Take a screwdriver and jumper across the two "large" exposed connectors on the relay. Does the starter operate? Yes? Relay or relay wiring troubles.

Now unhook both "quick connectors" from the relay. Clip one terminal to ground. Take a screwdriver or clip lead. Jumper from the large exposed stud over to the remaining relay quick connect terminal. Does it crank? Yes? wiring

No? Bad relay

IF YOU jumpered the big terminals and no crank, now you are into bad battery connections, bad battery cables, bad wire down to the solenoid or bad starter
 
67Dart273 said:
Here's the THING. Your were "back there" around the wring, the bulkhead connector.............
Click to expand...

Thank you very much sir! You always seem to give the best advice along with great instructions.
I will start with #1 and work my way down.

I'm sure I'll get to the bottom of it with your guys' help!
 
Distributor hold down is on the opposite site of the bulkhead.....

My guess is Dead Battery. Put a charger on it while cranking.
 
Get a good light and see if you can tighten the distributer down where it originally was. You may be able to see where it belongs if it is a little cleaner in a couple of spots. if you have been spinning the distributer around and around you may have marred it to where you can't tell. I'll just have to assume you tightened it down exactly where it was like you said. Charge or replace the battery. Now I am only guessing but I always do the easy stuff first. Turn the engine to the left and the right a few degrees. If you cannot do it, try loosening or removing the plugs. The starter gear may be jammed into the flywheel gear. If I am right, the gear will retract from the flywheel, and when you install the plugs and wires it will start right up, assuming it ran when you started to mess with it.
 
thanks for all the info guys. I'm sure glad I found this forum!

Anyhow, I hooked up the charger to the battery and tried to start it. It didn't start BUT, it did make a chattering / machine gun sound (at least we're making progress!).

It's my understanding that I may have a dead cell in the battery.

Is it true that Amps are needed to turn the starter - and volts are needed for the solenoid (the reason for the machine gun sound) ?
 
Don't worry about amps and volts and stuff. Clean the cables and charge the battery for four hours. If that doesn't work, take the battery to a parts store, they will check it for free, and if it is no good, hey you're already there, get a new one.
 
It sounds like when you moved the distributor you gave it a lot of advance making it harder to crank. When trying to start it up again on a not so good battery charge, the battery just lost its UMPF/Power from the increased load on it.

If your battery charger has a start function that throws more power at the battery, try that. If not just charge it normal to a full charge and try again. Worst case take the battery in and have it load tested..... then just buy a new battery.
 
Mad Dart said:
It sounds like when you moved the distributor you gave it a lot of advance making it harder to crank. When trying to start it up again on a not so good battery charge, the battery just lost its UMPF/Power from the increased load on it.

If your battery has a start function that throws more power at the battery, try that. If not just charge it normal to a full charge and try again. Worst case take the battery in and have it load tested..... then just buy a new battery.
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Also, if you had to much advance, that noise you heard may have been the starter snout breaking off!
 
Thank you both very much. I think I'll end up replacing the battery anyway. If you saw it, you'd probably think I should have done so a long time ago. I'm not sure how old it is anyway!
 
If you pull the coil wire it may turn over. Then you know it is advanced too far.

If you pull the coil wire and remove the plugs, it should turn over easily even if the battery is in poor condition. Won't turn over if the battery is junk though. I know your knowledge is somewhat limited, but you did use the charger correctly, right? If you charge it backwards you will have all sorts of problems.
 
Saverio, first I want to commend you for being willing to learn about your car. Always good to see someone taking an interest. The big thing you have to realize with old cars is there is a process to finding and fixing issues with them. The issue your dealing with now could be as simple as a run down battery from cranking on it or a ground that needs to be cleaned. I am assuming your a younger individual and if not it doesn't matter you're taking interest in a hobby we all share and enjoy. If it were me I wouldn't bounce from one thing to another. The battery you have may not be good but it may be better than what you buy. New parts don't always mean good parts. If you go and just try to throw parts at this car, and I don't know your situation but with me every dollar counts, it's very easy to get discouraged due to funds. Get a note book and keep track of your process. As 67dart273 said go get yourself a cheap volt/ohm meter. Remember some basic tools go a long way (I'd personally get a test light too).He among some others are very knowledgable with the spark thing. Follow advice but be methodical. You'll find here there are people that are very willing to help but if you don't get on a course and follow thru methodically on the advice given sometimes others get aggravated and short because they can't see what your doing and only read what you post.

Please do not take this as putting you down because I'm not. I've seen others get discouraged on here chasing things and they pretty much give up. I want all new comers to be able to enjoy and maybe one day pass along the knowledge. Good luck.
 
Dubob said:
Saverio, first I want to commend you for being willing to learn about your car. Always good to see someone taking an interest. The big thing you have to realize with old cars is there is a process to finding and fixing issues with them. The issue your dealing with now could be as simple as a run down battery from cranking on it or a ground that needs to be cleaned. I am assuming your a younger individual and if not it doesn't matter you're taking interest in a hobby we all share and enjoy. If it were me I wouldn't bounce from one thing to another. The battery you have may not be good but it may be better than what you buy. New parts don't always mean good parts. If you go and just try to throw parts at this car, and I don't know your situation but with me every dollar counts, it's very easy to get discouraged due to funds. Get a note book and keep track of your process. As 67dart273 said go get yourself a cheap volt/ohm meter. Remember some basic tools go a long way (I'd personally get a test light too).He among some others are very knowledgable with the spark thing. Follow advice but be methodical. You'll find here there are people that are very willing to help but if you don't get on a course and follow thru methodically on the advice given sometimes others get aggravated and short because they can't see what your doing and only read what you post.

Please do not take this as putting you down because I'm not. I've seen others get discouraged on here chasing things and they pretty much give up. I want all new comers to be able to enjoy and maybe one day pass along the knowledge. Good luck.
Click to expand...


I didn't take that as you putting me down at all! I think it's great that you chimed in!!!

You are correct - I'm a younger guy who loves old cars and I actually like working on them. My father isn't that kind of person, so I was never exposed to it, like a lot of folks on this board, at a young age. So really, I'm kind of new to a lot of this...

I want to say thanks though, for making sure I stay on a correct path. 67Dart273 has given me some excellent advice in the past, so I listen to what he says (he seems to know his stuff). ;)

I'd rather find something and fix it correctly rather than spend the money and waste time/effort throwing parts at it as a temporary band aid.

The notebook is a good idea.

I've already printed out the checks/steps that 67Dart has listed above. I do intend on going through them as listed but, the battery probably IS old/weak, and since I have all the stores (Napa, O'R, Advance, AutoZ) about two blocks from me, I figure it's no wasted effort to have that checked out.
 
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