Max Bore on a 98 Magnum 360?

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GOLD74DART

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I'm a little worried about the cylinder wall thickness. The machine shop bored my 1998 360 30 over, and I think max bore is 20 over. I wanting to push the limit, trying for 600hp with NOS, Is it safe to use this block?
 
GOLD74DART said:
I'm a little worried about the cylinder wall thickness. The machine shop bored my 1998 360 30 over, and I think max bore is 20 over. I wanting to push the limit, trying for 600hp with NOS, Is it safe to use this block?
s/b - but the only way you will know with some reasonable assurance is to have the wall thicknesses sonic checked. A good machine shop would have done that first.
 
Yes a sonic check would be the natural thing to do. If you want all out performance though get an "R" block. Then you won't have to worry about it.
 
GOLD74DART said:
looks like I'll have to send it back. Thanks for the info
I don't think I'd abandon it just yet. Mopar says 20 over - but for sure they are trying to be on the conservative side of things - and there sure isn't much difference between 20 over and 30 over. as it is already machined I'd get it checked. next time go for as little over bore as possible and still clean up the bore. wall thickness means more than a couple of extra cubes on an overbore.
 
Yes I told the machine shop the max overbore, He went 30 over for the sake of getting pistons easier! And not tell me until I got the motor back. You should see the mess he made balancing it. I know its not seen when put together but it still bothers me. I still like my 318, so I might go that route now.
 
I'm a 318 guy, but if I had this block freshly done up, I'd definitly get it sonic checked and use it if it proved to be OK. As stated above, your machinist may have done this already, and if not they should do it gratus since they overbored your request without talking to you first. With the HP numbers you are trying to achieve, you'd be way better off with the 360. JMO, Mike
 
ValiantMike said:
I'm a 318 guy, but if I had this block freshly done up, I'd definitly get it sonic checked and use it if it proved to be OK. As stated above, your machinist may have done this already, and if not they should do it gratus since they overbored your request without talking to you first. With the HP numbers you are trying to achieve, you'd be way better off with the 360. JMO, Mike

If they do sonic check it. What results should I be looking for?
 
My overall goal is to reach 6.40 1/8 mile with the Dart and still street drive it. They have a street 6.40 max class racing once a month at the local track. Of course on a limited budget. If thats not within reach then a decent street car is second my goal.
 
I'm sure there will be someone with more knowledge than myself that can give you the actual numbers you are looking for, but the general theory is a search for consistency and weakspots in cylinder walls. Mike
 
a buddy of mine has a 408stroker which he bored .30 over and is at around 550hp N/A.. 600 with NOS should be a breeze...
 
First, make sure the shop has access to a decent tester. Second, make sure teh guy using it knows how to get the most from it. Third, make sure they hand you the written report on it and it contains the info you need. There is a huge difference between equipment and operator. The $300 units are as reliable as a ruler to measure spark plug gap. Most need to be calibrated for the material. Not all iron is the same. The good units calibrate on your specific part. Not a chunk of generic iron supplied witht he tester. Then, there are single point tests, and slide tests. Single point is for that exact spot, it tells you the thickness. It means you need to test all over to get an idea of what's going on there. I test every inch of bore up from the bottom, in the four compass directions. Then there is the slide test. Where the transducer is slid along the surface and takes a fast string of readings (mine is 10 per second). Then when you remove the transducer, it tells you the thinnest reading it encountered. But it doesnt tell you the exact spot. Just that it's "X" thick somewhere. I do the point tests, and then a slide test from bottom to top. So on a typical small block, there are 16 readings of points, and 4 readings of minimum thickness for each hole. I use .150" as minimum possible thickness on the major thrust for a 500+ hp engine. Some go .120, some go .200. All depends. I dont think you will find many factory blocks .200 thick on the major thrusts after overboring. I've never seen one. The thickest I saw has been .198 on one hole, and that same block had .097" thick before boring on the non thrust side. Most fall between .150 and .190 on the major thrust. On any mopar V8, the major thurst is the right side of each bore, when viewed from the rear of the block. So the outside wall of the pass side bank, and the intake valley side wall on the driver's side.
 
If you are looking to make that kind of power then you should use a half fill block filler in the block which will help alot in supporting the cylinders in an overbore/high output situation. I have a half fill of Hardblok in my 340 and it didn't effect cooling at all being the heat is actually generated in the head and not at the bottom of the bores.


Chuck
 
moper said:
First, make sure the shop has access to a decent tester. Second, make sure teh guy using it knows how to get the most from it. Third, make sure they hand you the written report on it and it contains the info you need. There is a huge difference between equipment and operator. The $300 units are as reliable as a ruler to measure spark plug gap. Most need to be calibrated for the material. Not all iron is the same. The good units calibrate on your specific part. Not a chunk of generic iron supplied witht he tester. Then, there are single point tests, and slide tests. Single point is for that exact spot, it tells you the thickness. It means you need to test all over to get an idea of what's going on there. I test every inch of bore up from the bottom, in the four compass directions. Then there is the slide test. Where the transducer is slid along the surface and takes a fast string of readings (mine is 10 per second). Then when you remove the transducer, it tells you the thinnest reading it encountered. But it doesnt tell you the exact spot. Just that it's "X" thick somewhere. I do the point tests, and then a slide test from bottom to top. So on a typical small block, there are 16 readings of points, and 4 readings of minimum thickness for each hole. I use .150" as minimum possible thickness on the major thrust for a 500+ hp engine. Some go .120, some go .200. All depends. I dont think you will find many factory blocks .200 thick on the major thrusts after overboring. I've never seen one. The thickest I saw has been .198 on one hole, and that same block had .097" thick before boring on the non thrust side. Most fall between .150 and .190 on the major thrust. On any mopar V8, the major thurst is the right side of each bore, when viewed from the rear of the block. So the outside wall of the pass side bank, and the intake valley side wall on the driver's side.

Awesome information. I checked with the machine shop and he mic's the block to check for overbore capability??? Still got me not wanting to use it. I hate to put it all together, with the newer Magnum manifolds and heads,I still have to buy! And it goes pop. I guess I can't decide what to use yet. My gut is telling me to hold off and get a stronger block IE R3 to start with.
 
Well, we're talking two seperate things then. He is measuring the existing bore, and using experience and the factory published max overbore (ID) dimension for his figuring. That doesn't take anything into account except published specs. In a typical rebuild, that is more than enough. But, you are asking the block to exceed the factory design in terms of power and stress. So where the typical rebuild "should" be fine at .020 or .030 over, a performance engine may not have as good a service life when built on that platform. You have to dig a little deeper. What would be the best is letting the builder see how thick the casting for each bore is. That is what the term sonic testing is. It allows the builder to "see" the thickness of a metal. So you know if you're going too far with an overbore for a given application. Think of it this way. If you're tunring into a garage, and the insdie wall in 5' thick, and the outside wall is a std 1' thick, you may not fit in that spot. Or, you may fit the car, but not be able to get out of the vehicle...lol Same thing with sonic testing. It tells you what you cant see, so you can make a decision based on fact, not published semi fiction.
 
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