Millermatic 200

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PocketAces

PocketAces

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What's a fair price for a Millermatic 200 welder? Not sure when it was made but comes with a large bottle but no spool gun (for aluminum?).

Is this a good choice for welding automotive sheet metal?

Will I feel a big difference between this and a harbor freight 180 when welding sheet metal?
 
Isn't it better to use good 110 welder, miller has a great 110 welder that works perfect for sheetmetal. that is what I used when I mini-tubbed my demon. I wish I had a 200 or 210 for the thicker stuff though! Jared
 
72demon440 said:
Isn't it better to use good 110 welder, Jared
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That's exactly what I was wondering. The manual for this welder gives setting for welding down to 24 guage. And I'm reading good things on the net but nothing conclusive.
 
I noticed that the Harbor Freight unit will feed wire between 30 to 650 inches per minute. The Miller feeds between 85 and 585 ipm. Seems like that might be an issue when working with sheet metal.

The manual for the Miller gives the settings for welding 24-22 gauge with .023 wire as follows: Wire Speed 20%, Range Low, Voltage Adjustment 1. So it seems that the feed rate is slow enough because they are not recommending the minumum feed rate.

Hopefully someone has tried this welder on sheet metal and will chime in.
 
I use a large Miller Mig at work everyday (resto body shop) I personally CANNOT stand the bigger Miller units, they are bulky, heavy handles, take up a lot of room, and I have never liked they way they weld. I have a small hobart at home and it kicks the bigger Miller welders all day long.. They are small, light, easy to move around, the handles are light for doing quick plug welds... just my opinion but I love mine. For around $450 you will have a welder that is perfect for sheet metal and a bit larger steel. And if you read the handle on my hobart.. it says Miller right on it lol
 
The big difference between a harbor freight welder and a miller? Is that a joke? The harbor freight welder sucks, the miller doesn't!

I'd buy a Millermatic 200 in a heartbeat. I run a millermatic 35, which is an earlier version that's rated at 150 amps and runs off of 220v. My 35 is a little bit of a step down from the later 200, but its probably closer to the later 200 than a 100. A millermatic 200 will be fine for sheet metal, and has the added bonus of being useful for a lot of heavier welding.

The biggest thing to pay attention to with welders is the duty cycle. That's what separates cheap welders from good ones. A Millermatic 200 has a 60% duty cycle at 200 amps, meaning, you can weld at 200 amps for 6 out of every 10 minutes. It also means that at 150 amps, it has a 100% duty cycle, ie, you can weld all day without stopping. A harbor freight 180 has a 20% duty cycle at 140 amps. Meaning, you can only weld for 2 out of every 10 minutes without overheating the machine. This is because cheap welders use aluminum for all their internal windings, and it will straight up melt if you exceed your duty cycle. Better welders use copper for all their windings, and they have better duty cycles and more durability. The cheap crap (like the HF 180) also use flux core wire instead of gas shielding. Flux core sucks for sheetmetal, as it spatters all over the place. Lots more work grinding it all off later.

Most sheetmetal will need less than 100 amps to weld it. A millermatic 200 is definitely overkill for sheet metal, but it will weld it without issue. A 100 would be fine, and cheaper and lighter, and run off 110v and all that good stuff. But, it will be topped out welding sheet metal too, so, that's pretty much where its usefulness will end.

If all you're looking to do is "hot glue gun" some sheet metal together and never use the welder again, you'll probably be fine with anything. But if you actually want a capable welder, something that you can use later on any number of jobs, a millermatic 200 would be a great buy.

I see Millermatic 200's listed on eBay for around $1k, which is half of what a new millermatic retails for. Locally you might be able to find them under $1k, which would be a steal for a capable machine like that. If I remember correctly, I paid around $400 for my 35, but that's a '70's era machine. The nice thing about Miller is that they still support their older welders, so you can still get parts, manuals etc, even for stuff that's 40+ years old.
 
72bluNblu said:
The big difference between a harbor freight welder and a miller? Is that a joke?
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Not a joke. The question was specifically about sheet metal. I've come across numerous posts on other sites of people who love their Millermatic but still keep a small unit around for sheet metal. It could be to save the headache of changing over to small wire all the time, or it could be because the small units are better suited to sheet metal.
 
Hi 65, I think I can chip in on this too as far as the harbor freight welders are concerned, 72blu is being a too critical.

I own a harbor freight 90amp welder and it does it's job, they recently moved to a new manufacturer. I've had the pleasure of using both old and new, the new black ones seem a little better built. It also has a sweet current cut-off when you aren't holding the trigger, so no stray sparks.

Now the question is, how much are you going to weld? Either way you slice it, mig isn't as clean as a argon gas hookup. If you want it to look like perfect, flux core mig isn't your gal anyway. Perfect is the enemy of the good. If its just for the floor pan, and misc little projects, where you are ok with the use of a primer to make it look good, go for the 90 amp. 180 may be cleaner. Hell, I'm comfortable with mine up to 1/4" steel, maybe more. Save the big dog for another day.

Although frowned upon by the purists, a bonus to it's adjustability is to rig up an extension cord with a in line common 600w dimmer switch set just lower than full throttle. it helps turn down the heat for lighter gauge flux core tends to run hot. I and several other people have been doing it for months-years on end, no problems blowing it up, they are solidly built.

Look at some of the welds I've done on my body in my build thread below, see if you like them, all done with the 90 amp with aforementioned mods.

Take it or leave it, do yourself a favor and get a auto dimming helmet though.
 
A gas shielded Millermatic 200 will give you better welds on sheet metal than a HF flux core set up, hands down. Miller specifically tells you how to set up a 200 for 24 gauge sheet metal, which means you don't even have to believe me. Since the thinest sheet metal you're likely to find on an A-body is 20 gauge, you won't even be at the minimums for the machine.

If you're only welding sheet metal, you won't have to change the wire all the time. If you're not just welding sheet metal, you'll have to change the wire on any welder you get, since you'll have to change it to match what you're welding. This is true of either machine, although the Millermatic 200 will be capable of welding a much larger range of metals.

Guys that spend a lot of time welding might have a smaller unit for sheet metal simply because they don't want to be switching their larger machine over all the time. If you do enough welding, it makes sense to have different welders for different jobs. But again, if you're only welding sheet metal or thin gauge stuff, you won't have to switch it over and it won't matter.

The Miller is 10x the machine the HF unit is. It will last forever, need very little service, and will weld anything from 24 gauge all the way up to and beyond 1/4" steel. Because of its duty cycle, you'll pretty much be able to weld most stuff you encounter all day long without worrying about overheating it.

Maybe you'll never use it enough to find that out. If all you want to do is stick a couple panels together, buy a HF welder, lay down some crappy hot glue gun welds and grind them off.

But, given the choice between a superior, American made Miller welder and a Chinese knock off, I'd buy the Miller.
 
I'd still go with a Hobart.... it's a good solid built unit for probably half the price of the Miller, welds just as good too... can a Miller weld sheet metal? Yea... but I think it is over kill and I think you would find a smaller unit like the Hobart to be MUCH easier to use and turn out awesome welds... I use a small unit like this on all of my metal work and it isn't "stuck" together hot glue gun welds lol.... it's all in the hands of the welder... the guy behind the trigger that is :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hobart-Hand...90668128194?pt=BI_Welders&hash=item2c64b4bfc2
 
Do your pricing homework regardless of what you buy. For some reason welders hold their value pretty well. Your buddies Miller may not be the smokin' deal you think it is.

As for value, for a brand new welder, I think the Miller 211 is an excellent deal at 1040.00 at Cameron welding. This is without a cart or bottle though. But it is a genuine miller and will weld 3/8" material in a single pass. It is NOT the production machine that the 212 it is but at $600.00 cheaper it offers a lot of bang for the buck.

Yes the Miller 200 will weld 24 gauge sheet metal, but will YOU be able to weld 24 gauge sheet metal with a Miller 200. The BIG advantage of a miller 140C over a Miller 200 is the wire feed speed. The 140C will feed the wire as slow as 15 inches per minute vs. 60 inches per minute with the 211. Having the ability to slow down the wire feed speed will greatly lesson the chance of blowing holes in the material.

As for the quality of the Harbor Freight welders. Is the Harbor Freight 180 welder the same quality as the Miller 200? No, the Miller 200 is a production machine, which has a very high duty cycle and is often used in fabrication shops 8-10 hrs per day for years on end without issue. Clearly the Harbor Freight welder would not hold up under those conditions.

That being said, I own an Italian made Harbor Freight Welder (Their welders are branded Harbor Freight, but they've used a variety of manufacturers over the years, they now have a new MFG that seems to have upped the quality slightly.)

I am very happy with my Harbor Freight Welder, which I bought used! It lays a beautiful bead with good penetration and has welded everything from sheet metal to 1/4" bar stock without complaint. You have to pay attention to duty the duty cycle on thicker material, but guess what, it's duty cycle is comparable to a Lincoln 180.

A lot of times people compare the quality of a welder based upon the look of the bead, and if one welder is using a mixture of 75% Argon and 25% CO2 gas and the other welder is using flux core wire, the gas welder is going to lay a nicer bead every time. So compare mig to mig and flux core to flux core. Incidentally flux core has some advantages, particularly if welding outside in the wind, something you simply shouldn't do with a mig welder.

For the best quality of welds on sheet metal with a mig welder you should do the following. Weld with a mixture of 75% Argon and 25% CO2. Use .023 wire, this will put less heat into the metal, this is critical if welding with a 220 volt welder. Start EACH weld with a freshly cut piece of wire, if you look at the ball on the wire after you finish welding, it is like a little piece of slag.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
I got the Miller! It's a Millermatic 200 made in 1987. The gun has been replaced with a Tweco Model 2 15 footer and it's setup with.030" wire. It came with a partially filled Argon bottle and a regulator/flow meter. I got the whole setup for $500. Craigslist Rocks!

I need to get a different plug installed to work with my 220 outlet and the gun is missing the gas nozzle and insulator. Luckily parts seem to be readily available for the Tweco gun.

From what I've read, .023 wire is best for sheet metal. Is this necessary or will the .030 that's in it work?
 
Yes, for best results on sheet metal .023 is essential when using a 220 welder. You can buy a 2Lb spool at Home Depot for $11.47 and 2Lbs is quite a bit of welding.

The thinner wire puts less heat into the material, considering that you can't slow down the wire feed speed as much on a 220 machine as a 110 machine, the thinner wire helps a lot.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Joe Dokes said:
Yes, for best results on sheet metal .023 is essential when using a 220 welder. You can buy a 2Lb spool at Home Depot for $11.47 and 2Lbs is quite a bit of welding.

The thinner wire puts less heat into the material, considering that you can't slow down the wire feed speed as much on a 220 machine as a 110 machine, the thinner wire helps a lot.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
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Coming from a journeyman welder, you are exactly correct.
I may ad, the 220 gives you a better stability of the arc and better welding quality. If you have 3 phase power, i have welded sheetmetal (quarter panels) with .030 wire with good results. I wouldn't reccomend it for an amature though. You really have to turn the voltage (penetration) and wire feed speed (heat) down a lot to achieve good results. Spacing your welds about a foot apart and hammer and dollying the weld before it cools helps a lot. Heat and distortion is your enemy. You are really looking at tacking and moving along until all the welds meet. This takes a lot of time and patience to work your way around the panel.
I would definitely use .023 wire for body panels if you can, and forget about flux core or ''innershield'' gasless wire. It's not really a whole lot of trouble to change wire sizes. 5 minutes and you are done max.
Don't use straight CO/2 for shielding gas, use argon/CO/2 75% 25% commonly known as liquid air ''blueshield''.
I hope this helps you, and good luck!
Tom.
 
The welder came with straight argon. Will this work or do I need to change over to mixed gas?

Also, to change to .023 wire it's my understanding that I need to change the feed rollers, liner and tip. Is that right?
 

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You do not need to change the liner. Only the tip and rollers. I will look when I get in to work and see if i hve any rollers for it. Do you lnow if it has the bolt in rollers (3 flat blade screws) or the quick change rollers?
 
toplscuda said:
Do you lnow if it has the bolt in rollers (3 flat blade screws) or the quick change rollers?
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Three screws. Stamped 035 V. Each roller has two grooves. Can't tell if the grooves are the same size.
 

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The wheels are usually stamped on each side for size and you can use straight argon
although 90-10 or 75-25 would be better
 
cudascott said:
The wheels are usually stamped on each side for size and you can use straight argon
although 90-10 or 75-25 would be better
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I pulled the rollers off. There is nothing else stamped on them so I'm guessing both grooves are the same size. It's currently loaded with .030 wire with the .035 rollers. Seems to feed.

I ordered .023 rollers from Miller today. $36.95 after tax with free shipping to a dealer near me.

The dealer has all the parts for the Tweco gun. I bought enough today to get going with the .030 wire. I'll get some .023 tips and wire when I pick up the rollers in a few days.

The last question is the liner. Many people are saying one liner is fine for .023-.035 wire. They do sell .023 liners and I read a few posts about more consistant feeding with the smaller liner. Something about less snaking inside the liner. Do you think I will notice a difference with the larger liner?
 
Pull the three screws out of one and flip it over. It will have the size of the other groove stamped in it. If you are lucky you will have the other size you need already. I looked and sis not have any old ones that size laying around. Computer does show 1 new set in stock at my main store. (I will have to have them check that to be certain) $25 plus the ride to you if I really do have them and you need them.
 
oops looks like you posted while I was typing
On alll my rental welders I put the largest liner in the gun that the machine will handle. This way I do not have to change liners every time someone wants to rent it for a different size wire. In 20 years I have never had an issue that was caused by having a larger liner in.
 
I went home last night all ready to lay down some nice beads. Wrong! My first attemp to Mig weld was a disaster. Every time I pulled the trigger the wire would burn back to the tip and about half the time the wire would kink just after the drive rollers where it enters the gun liner.

Went back to the welding shop for advice and parts. Changed the following:


Different Gas - Pure Argon is for Aluminum, switched to CO2-Argon mix.
Changed the gun liner - too much friction on the wire.
Replaced the driver rollers - trying to drive .030 wire with worn out .035 rollers.
New .035 wire - the old .030 wire had rust spots on it.

What a difference! The picture shows the beads I ran on 1/8 inch with almost no practice. Ignore the one where I burned through. I'm getting some popping and spatter when I first start to weld, but once it gets going, it welds very nice. I must say, it's nice not to have to chip off the slag.

I'm waiting for .023 drive rollers from Miller. Once they come in I will switch to .023 wire and see if I can weld 20 gauge sheet metal without burning through.

I also have a leak in the regulator at the bottom. Took it apart and put it back together and now it leaks a lot less. Seems to be coming from some sort of spring loaded pressure releaf valve. Maybe that's to protect the welder from too much pressure? It only leaks when I'm not welding. After I release the trigger, it takes a seconds or two and then it starts leaking.
 

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You are gaining experence real fast.
Run 75/25 gas.
.030 is not a bad wire to weld sheet metal with.
Looks like you need to move faster, your beads are way too thick to prevent sheet metal warpage.
You have to spot weld sheet metal, and even then it will bow in and out with out support on the other side.
Brass is your friend, weld will not stick to it.
 
Nice looking welder! Looks like it came with just about everything you need!

Welds don't look bad, I think I would still drop down to the .023 wire. That'll let you run less heat and clean the beads up a bit.
 
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