Mini Starter

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rumblefish360

rumblefish360

I have escaped the EVIL Empire State!
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As of right now, I have a problem fitting on the wires to the tranny and lack normal key starting operations. So as a quick fix, I borrowed a racers trick and have a push button. The question is;

Would/can I burn something out on the mini starter quickly?
Seloniod inside?

I might be due for a battery. It's been awhile. However, the story goes like;

Went to start Duster 2 days ago....click click click. (Damn!)
OK, Jump battery with charger starter. Read voltage @ 20 volts. Go to start car....click click click.... (Damn!)
Swap out mini's and Va-Rooom. (ALLLRIGHT!!!!!)
Move car to work on Dodge, finish Dodge (For now) and hop into Duster, Turned over twice. 1. Forgot to turn on key. OK 2. Turn on key, forget to pump gas once. OK Still turning. Pump gas once, nothing but click click click... DAMN! Tryed again with charger starter on there. Click Click Click. Double damn.

Whatcha think? Starter?
 
I have normally found this symptom was from a faulty starter solenoid. The older starter original style starter has a plunger and two round contacts and usually the contacts burn up (kind of crescent shaped), but I could put my remote starter switch to the solenoid and get it to start. I do not believe you can damage ether the original or mini starter by starting it this way. The mini starters are very easy to extract the solenoid contacts and replace and I can usually buy replacement contacts from a local rebuilder.
 
If the starter will work when jumped then it is not a bad solenoid. If the solenoid is bad it would not work at all. It sounds like you have low voltage/amperage going to the solenoid. A starter relay has contacts in it also, if these contacts get dirty or worn then you will have a resistance and you won't have full power going to the solenoid to activate it correctly/fully. Being you have tried two starters and have the same problem I expect this will be the problem.

Chuck
 
How about directly wiring the push button starter switch to the terminals on the starter? I did that in the Dodge Magnum. No problems there.

I'm not due for a battery, but we know that means nothing. It's 2 years old and does alot of sitting.

There is a electric auto rebuilder down the block. I should stop in there. The kid @ AutoZone said it was bad, but, there tester was just a very basic bad/good thing with no tips on repare.
I did like the starter replacement price under $75 though.
I also think I have a spare starter relay around.

Thanks fellas.
 
make sure all of your connections down to the starter from the battery are clean, this includes both sides of the relay, If all of the latter are clean and tight, and your battery voltage is at 12 volts or there abouts without the engine running, and you know your starter is good because you can start the car with the charger on-----the next thing to look at is the reserve capacity of the battery because the battery will look good but have no reserve to start the car. Have the battery load tested.
JMO


racy
 
I am one that keeps vehicles for a along time (200,000 miles typically) so I see lots of wear out failure modes. My expereince with mini starters (675,000 miles over 4 vehicles) is the contacts inside the solenoid wear out and no longer make contact, but othewise the starter is just fine.

If you take the cover off the end of the solenoid you will find two heavy copper contacts on opposite sides of the solenoid housing, one is attached to the cable that goes in side the motor and the other is connected to the terminal the battery cable connects to. In between and being held away by a spring is a large washer looking piece. When the key is turned the windings in the solenoid are energized and the magnetic field pulls this washer in against the spring until it makes contact with the contacts and the starter motor is activated.

The edges of the washer are erroded away over time so the washer can't make good contact with both sides. Quite often repeated application of the key will get it to start and the washer will rotate to new areas and it won't happen again for a long time. Applying power directly may result in less voltage drop so you get a more robust magnetic field which will allow it to make contact.

The simple fix I have found that works well for many many thousand miles is to remove the washer and flip it over so you have a fresh surface for making contact. It simple, free and quite often can be done with the starter still in the car.
 
I agree with dgc333 they are easily rebuilt, if the motor is otherwise healthy. One other thing to be aware of is the positive cable can corrode inside the jacket but it is usually an issue with old cars where the owner has used one of those clamp on terminal instead of replacing a badly corroded terminal that has been eaten away with acid. By the way, test the motor with your jumpers and remote starter button before reinstalling the starter motor.
Good Luck
 
I had a few go bad. It turned out one of the bolts had to long of a shoulder so the bolt would stop turning before the starter was tight. Changed the bolt never had a problem
 
Sucks that your duster won't run Rob.
Hey dave (DGC333), have a picture of the washer? One of these mini starters died on my truck last winter. I'm going to take it apart to see if that's it.
 
95% of the failures on those Nippondenso starters is the contacts wear out. Any shop that rebuilds them will have contacts on hand adn should sell them to you. I always replace the plunger when I do the contacts just to be safe and it's only a couple of bucks more.
 
The copper plated washer is mounted to plunger and I have never seen one of these get bad enough it had to be replaced. It is the contact that the battery cable attaches to itself that burns away. I replaced contact kits all of the time when I was a Honda Tech, Honda's also use ND starters and it was common practice to change a contact set when the starter only clicked. The reason the battery cable contact takes most of the wear is because electricity flows from ground to power and the battery cable contact is the last one in line. I am unsure if the Honda contact set is the same but I know you can purchase contact sets for starters. Dave is right they are very easy to change.

Chuck
 
Here's what I found after pulling the plunger/washer.

ministarter contacts 001.jpg


ministarter contacts 002.jpg
 
That's it, notice how the one contact has more arcing tracks than the other? that's the one that will eventually wear out.

No, those look fine, when the contact wears out it will be very thin.

If you really wanted to get the most life out of them and being the one side takes most of the wear you can rotate then from side to side so the wear is even.

The reason it quits working is because the one side wears more than the other and the movement of the copper ring can't take up the difference in height.

Chuck
 
There are HD versions of the contacts that will last a lot longer and have less voltage drop available too.
 
Once I have time to get it off the grass and onto the pavment, I'll have a look. Thanks, I'll keep you all up on whats what and happening.

Good pictures mike. (Wheres my glass'. Now that's the area that I need to look for worn/arced etc... wear?
 
Racyroy, replacement cables on the way. There tight, clean but old and cracked. However, this is a surprise problem from where there was none.
It's ethier the starter and/or battery. Cheap long sitting battery. HAs been jumped before. Starter new, less than a year old, never a problem. It all ends in a day.
 
cool, I hope ya find the prob soon, it's always tough to diagnose a prob without being there.

racy
 
hey and as for burning up a solenoid on starter when using a push button, no you won't burn up the noid as long as you lift your finger off of the button as soon as it starts obviously. twelve volts is twelve volts,, and for what i read you had said 20 volts------aaaahhhhhh way to high you'll burn things up!!
Check voltage to the small wire on the starter relay while someone turns on the key on to see if you have voltage to the start relay, if not then find out why If you have voltage to the relay while someone is turning the key then there is a real good possibility that the starter solenoid is bad.

And this is all if I understand your question correctly, If not then---------nevermind :)
 
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