My air conditioning nightmare.2000 Grand caravan

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needsaresto

needsaresto

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So had the AC recharged this spring. I knew it needed it,wasnt working so good. 2 weeks later the AC is kaput again. So I had the system gone over by a very reputable mechanic,had to wait 2 weeks just to get in. Rear evap is cracked. Cost me about $740 yeasterday and it still wasnt right. The low side psi was to high (60 psi).Compressor is bad too.

Got a compressor at a VERY good price. The reputable mech was too busy and I wanted the AC fixed NOW dammit. I cant take 40 degree celsius weather due to my M.S.
So I take it to another place. Go to pick it up and they tell me theres more problems. Vans on the hoist and they show me oil all over the rear AC lines. But I know that this is from the rear evap cracking as the good mech said it had puked all over the place. He just didnt clean it up to save me a few bucks I guess. Theres some leak die there too but this is from the recharge in the spring I think. Then they tell me there was only 3 ounces of R134a in it. I just paid the good mechanic for 46 ounces yesterday,so they are either right about the lines or trying to scam me for a bogus R134a charge.

I got it home and cleaned it all up underneath with brake clean and rages. I have it up on ramps and my black light is ready. If it's going to puke all that oil and die out I'll see it tonight.

The AC is working well right now so we'll see.

How does an AC sytem go from working great last summer to needing a rear evap,compressor and lines all at once? I think the initial spring recharge is at fault. It seems to me they overcharged it and that is causing all trhe problems.

Good luck proving that though....
 
I've been doing a/c repair for over 20 years now and I can tell you that 80% of the repairmen shouldn't be allowed to work an a/c. An overcharge is very common and your right, it is impossible to prove fault. Finding leaks takes time and good tools. Most guys don't have the patiance, and will not spend the money for the right tools. Putting dye in a system to find leaks is not a good idea,and can cause more problems.Before an a/c system is recharged it should be evacuated to at least 500 microns (I prefer 400), and able to hold that for at least 10-15 minutes,that will show system is tight and leak free. Refrigerant should be weighed in as per manufactures specs then checked by pressures and tempatures. Good luck finding a good repairman they are few and far between.If you were anywhere near western Pa I'd be glad to help, but since you use celsius I'm guessing your not from around here.
 
I'll bet you your front evap is leaking too......Almost every caravan that comes to my shop has either the front or rear evap leaking or both. Hell I replaced an evap this spring on a 2005 Dodge Ram pickup! The cores that Chrysler has been using the last 15 years are so thin the least bit of corrosion on them makes them start leaking. Caravans/Voyagers have a baaad track record for a/c....I don't need comsumer reports to tell me that. I can't do em all so I send countless vehicles to the Chrysler dealer 1 hour south of me. They know me extemely well! Any more problems with leak down have the front evap sniffed for 134a. Dave
 
Dont scare me about the front evap. Thats a big job.
I did find a leak underneath,where the tubes go into the rear evap.
The smaller tube had a pinhole,enough that I could wipe it away every minute or so. Not much there to be sure,but I assume it's the low pressure tube as its warm. I was desparate to fix it.I've spent ridiculous sums on this in the last 2 days.

So I scuffed the tube and used epoxy putty. Now
im praying that it holds.
 
dla4567 said:
I've been doing a/c repair for over 20 years now and I can tell you that 80% of the repairmen shouldn't be allowed to work an a/c. An overcharge is very common and your right, it is impossible to prove fault. Finding leaks takes time and good tools. Most guys don't have the patiance, and will not spend the money for the right tools. Putting dye in a system to find leaks is not a good idea,and can cause more problems.Before an a/c system is recharged it should be evacuated to at least 500 microns (I prefer 400), and able to hold that for at least 10-15 minutes,that will show system is tight and leak free. Refrigerant should be weighed in as per manufactures specs then checked by pressures and tempatures. Good luck finding a good repairman they are few and far between.If you were anywhere near western Pa I'd be glad to help, but since you use celsius I'm guessing your not from around here.
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good idea or not,you wont find anyone who doesnt use dye around here. Cheap and saves time.

And your right,Im in Canada.
 
The epoxy probably won't stick due to the oil in the R134a, but it might slow it down.
 
Well I used brake clean extensively first and then scuffed with 80 grit. Then I wrapped the entire circumference of the pipe with a nice thick layer of putty while the AC was off.

I did the best I could.

Any idea if those pipes are aluminum or stainless?
 
As Dmoore stated I also have replaced many evap on caravans. The van is 9 years old. It is very possible that when the evap was leaking enough that some of the oil charge went with the freon. This in turn starved the rest of the system for oil. I can see that happening. I don't think the sealer will work on the rear line. I think you need to replace it. Next time I would stick with one mechanic so they don't blame each other for the alleged faulty repair. My 2 cents.
 
dla4567 said:
I've been doing a/c repair for over 20 years now and I can tell you that 80% of the repairmen shouldn't be allowed to work an a/c. An overcharge is very common and your right, it is impossible to prove fault. Finding leaks takes time and good tools. Most guys don't have the patiance, and will not spend the money for the right tools. Putting dye in a system to find leaks is not a good idea,and can cause more problems.Before an a/c system is recharged it should be evacuated to at least 500 microns (I prefer 400), and able to hold that for at least 10-15 minutes,that will show system is tight and leak free. Refrigerant should be weighed in as per manufactures specs then checked by pressures and tempatures. Good luck finding a good repairman they are few and far between.If you were anywhere near western Pa I'd be glad to help, but since you use celsius I'm guessing your not from around here.
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All true. Around here, though, shop owners want to use dye just to push things through. Especially when the dye is also billed as a "stop leak." (Really, if it has some kind of "gel" or whatever in it to stop a leak what's it doing to the orifice tube?) But before the dye, how did they do things? They pulled a vacuum and see if it held.I worked with a guy who went out for company training on A/C for a week and came back with no knowledge on how to read the gauges on the machine, but with knowledge on how to sell more parts. Had to retrain 'em on the machine and show 'em how to read the gauges and a thermometer. (He was told to pull a system to 28" of vacuum and pump it full, no reason to see if it held, that's what the dye is for.) Got to the point that the boss quit handing him the A/C work because he got tired of the comebacks, simply because of the fact the company taught him how to cut corners, not do it right. The kid could sell the how out of parts and make boat loads of money, but then lose it all the next week because he misdiagnosed the intial problem or refused to check his work once he installed new parts into the system. Is it the lack of proper experience in the field, the lack of proper training, or a little of both?
 
If your local to Ingersoll Ontario I can lend you may a/c stuff its old and for r 12 but With a 5$ adaptor you can do your own a/c with redtek wouldn't recommend it if you have no clue about a/c and don't want to learn though
 
Slappy;I think thats exactly what hapenned. The evap failed critically and puked all the oil out. That in turn burned up the rotors in the compressor. I have no explanation why the lines are starting to leak but this might be why. At first I thought they were stainless,but in hindsight why would Chrysler use stainless steel? They are more likely aluminum and prone to corrosion from the outside in. The pinhole I found was in the higher line and directly above the lower line. They were rather close togther and I had to spread them some to wrap the putty around it. This makes me think the lines might have been rubbing together,causing a thin spot.

Ramenth,with the rats shops are having to charge,it's no wonder they use dye. It's faster and much cheaper for the customer. And if it does cause problems,it will likey be well after the vehicle has left the shop.

Dan201,I wish I was closer!!! Im in B.C though. What I really need is a method to evac and recharge the system without dumping it in the atmosphere. Every time I have to have that done it costs me min $100. Something that wont break the bank is good too!

I have attempted an AC repair before,on an older Caravan. Too much was wrong and the Van wasnt worth what it would cost. I can change out a drier and know where the valves are for recharge. I can swap out the lines or any component myself.I havent this time as I have no desire to dump any sort of thing in the atmosphere that I could get in trouble for.

Im in this Vans AC repair waist deep now,So I might as well do the lines. Any advice here would be deeply appreciated,and Im hoping I can get preformed lines somewhere,maybe a coated one that wont corrode.

The van has 200 000+ km's now,but by all acounts it should go well over 400 000 if I maintain it.So thats why I want to make a lasting repair.
 
There is no downside to using dye in an A/C system. Even the car manufactures install it at the factory. However "stop leak" sucks. Do not use it.
 
The front evap is definitely a chore. If u are feeling adventurous and patient it can be done at home to save $. Also, if u are trying to make it last, dont forget the expansion valve. I have changed quite a few in chrysler minivans.
 
Chrysler calls it the H valve i think.

Guys the line is still leaking so Im choosing to not run the ac for now. I phoned Chrysler and the only way I can buy those lines is to get both. They are $317 my cost (slight discount). Im wondering if I can fit a new section of line in and what sort of fittings would hold the pressure in rather than replace the entire lines. I do have aluminum fuel line handy. Would flare nut fittings work for connecting the patch? Or should I just replace both lines?
 
needsaresto said:
Chrysler calls it the H valve i think.

Guys the line is still leaking so Im choosing to not run the ac for now. I phoned Chrysler and the only way I can buy those lines is to get both. They are $317 my cost (slight discount). Im wondering if I can fit a new section of line in and what sort of fittings would hold the pressure in rather than replace the entire lines. I do have aluminum fuel line handy. Would flare nut fittings work for connecting the patch? Or should I just replace both lines?
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WEll I ordered the new lines.Seemed like the best solution and the best way to protect what money I already have tied up.

Looks like it'll be a couple weeks coming from the states though. So back to driving the pickup with no AC for now.

Whatcha gonna do? It is 9 years old after all. The only major component left to blow up is the evap in the dash, and if that goes I'll park it and take my time with it,do it myself. My mech said it's about 12 hours for that job...
 
Yaaa,the ac is working,sort of...I ordered the new line some time ago.the wrong one came in so it got reordered.It finally cam in on tuesday,got installed today. The ac blows very cold,but only at highway speeds. I'll assume this is due to pressure bilding up in the system and a lerger heat transfer at the condensor. The ac works at at idle in the parking lto but not as well. There is a hissing noise coming from both evaps sometimes there and sometimes not. at times the ac works not at all.I believe the h valve needs to be replaced.They are cheap so why not...
 
Hey i am a refrig mechanic, and own a refrig company. If you are close to centrail alberta drop me a line and ill give you a hand.
60psi on the suction side is high for 134a. I would say over charged or bad valves in the compressor ( which i doubt ) Not hard to find out though just got to know what the discharge is doing.
 
Y'all don't have the Cash for Clunkers up there, eh? Just Kiddin' ! I struggle with those darn Caravan/Voyager a/c's all the time. Pain in the arse. Good Luck!
 
No cash for clunkers.Van is good otherwise.I just think my mechanic is chasng the problem by throwing parts at it..

Brian c I am in Trail B.C. So far I have replaced the rear evap,compressor reciever dryer and the small ac line to the rear evap.I think what I'll do is pick up oe of those recharge kits that comes with a guage,check the system and let you guys know whats in there.

This mech is feeding off me. Im going to make sure he is being honest.
 
needsaresto said:
Dont scare me about the front evap. Thats a big job.
I did find a leak underneath,where the tubes go into the rear evap.
The smaller tube had a pinhole,enough that I could wipe it away every minute or so. Not much there to be sure,but I assume it's the low pressure tube as its warm. I was desparate to fix it.I've spent ridiculous sums on this in the last 2 days.

So I scuffed the tube and used epoxy putty. Now
im praying that it holds.
Click to expand...


The smaller line is always the high side while the larger would be, you guessed it, the low side......:cheers:
 
needsaresto said:
Yaaa,the ac is working,sort of...I ordered the new line some time ago.the wrong one came in so it got reordered.It finally cam in on tuesday,got installed today. The ac blows very cold,but only at highway speeds. I'll assume this is due to pressure bilding up in the system and a lerger heat transfer at the condensor. The ac works at at idle in the parking lto but not as well. There is a hissing noise coming from both evaps sometimes there and sometimes not. at times the ac works not at all.I believe the h valve needs to be replaced.They are cheap so why not...
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Hissing sounds coming from either evap is normal and is only the valve regulating the correct amount of refrigerant into the evap core. The fan on the passenger side would be the condenser fan...is it running at idle when the a/c compressor is engaged? Most are two speed, meaning the second highest speed would be needed(more air flow)if the high side pressure climbed to a predetermined cut in point. A high pressure switch in the high side line controls this. Guys I have been overwhelmed this a/c season here in Va. and its not over by a long shot! Dave www.davesautocool.com
 
dmoore said:
The smaller line is always the high side while the larger would be, you guessed it, the low side......:cheers:
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Yup!!! Thats why I couldnt stop the leak.It was in the high pressure line and I never stood a chance.

I still have the old line and Im hoping to find a solution to the leak.Make the line reusable again.
 
Well, the H valve got replaced today and now I have no AC at all.

Im so sick of being milked...
 
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