My First Resto-Mod (Guidance Appreciated)

[JungleCrow]

:hello2: So I have had this 1970 Dart sitting around for awhile. Just me and my little buddy workin on it. It has a 383ci in it with the 727 transmission. Linked to an 8 3/4 rear end with gears unknown for now. No power brakes, no power steering, no heat, no air, no radio, no zip. Just the way I like it.

My plans are to stay realitively cheap while investing most of my green backs to the drive terrain and fabricating a lot of stuff myself. Can't let all that training go to waste. I figured if the engine was good I could supply it with a healthy stroker kit from 440. Everyone is screaming the big 496ci package but I think Ill settle for something smaller. I have two transmissions which Ill probably rebuild one even though I would like a 4, 5 or even 6 sd. Beggers can't be choosers here. But since there seems to be some holes in these pockets, Im probably just gonna stick with the auto till I win the jackpot. Rear end might have to see a pro since I dont have the tools and only have a little know how on that subject. Then again it all depends on what Im doing with the other components which is up in the air until I get this body rolling. Speaking of which...

For the body, I plan on patching any rust with 18g 4130 steel?? Ill save that for Q time. I would like to paint the body flat black. I heard Rustoleum works according to Hot Rod Magazine. Someone suggested Hot Rod Black from a local store. Im leaning towards their wisdom. As far as the engine back, interior cab, trunk, suspension etc. I was thinking POR-15 over bare metal? Im not looking for a fansty car. Just a driver. Lets put it this way. A friend of mine was like, "You're getting rid of the stereo?" I chuckled and replied, "Nooooo, I might have two 3" speakers sticking out the back." "That's all I need."

I have aquired a portable sandblaster which I plan to do strip the paint completely down. Right now I have a few spots where I saw some rust through. The blaster works really well but I need to make a temp booth so its easier to collect the media. I also need to pick up a better welder and since my favorite store, Tractor Supply Company, no longer sells Argon... I guess Ill have to find a new place to get that too. So paint and primers... I got some questions here for the experts.

1. Do I strip the car to metal then fix body followed by primer? What's the correct process here?
2. What primer should I use for the bare metal outside body?
3. Should I lay POR-15 straight down, scrap the idea, or what?
4. It's 18 gage 4130 steel right?

All advice welcomed and appreciated.

Here is the begining stages a couple months back.

 

[JungleCrow]

Hey, my brother finally woke up and decided he was tired of doing nothing. So he came over sit inside the car and do... Nothing. Hahaha! Just kidding. He helped a lot. More than my last helper.

 

[CudaChris67]

Looks like you have a really nice car to start with. I am curious though why you would go through all the trouble of sandblasting/rust repair only to inadequately protect your work by putting some low end paint on your baby If nothing else, get some good epoxy primer (black maybe) to get you started after you strip the paint. you can use filler right over the top of it, and seal it up with the same primer when you are done doing bodywork.

I just orders epoxy and hi fill (and clear coat) from Southern Polyurethanes: http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/

Take a read through their "perfect paint job"

http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/perfect paint.htm

I am not saying you have to do it this way, but it is educational.

I have not used their products yet (plenty other on the forum have) , but feel free to check out my build thread in a couple weeks, as I will be priming this weekend.

I did something similar to POR15 for my floor pan/trunk/undercarriage/suspension called rustbullet. It is avail in aluminum and black, so I did aluminum inside, and black on the suspension. There are some pics on my site www.1967barracuda.shutterfly.com

Looking forward to watching your build.

-Chris

 

[Abodybomber]

Nice start. Don't diss that 383,just yet..A stock bottom end,484 Purple Shaft,bowl worked 906 castings,12's easy.

 

[JungleCrow]

CudaChris67 - Are you talking about the cheap flat black paint job? Honestly, I like the color. Im a very bland individual who really doesnt like chrome or other shiny stuff. Actually, Im a novice painter. I do like the flat black look. What do you propose? For the primer, I should blast the car then immediately prime followed by body work (welding panels/patches)? I plan on using minimum, if any body filler. Im all ears on any info. Thanks for what you have put forth already.

Abodybomber - If the 383 checks out good at the machine shop, then I will stick with it for sure.

This build is gonna be real slow. Ill probably have the body done and sitting around waiting for drivetrain. Dont want to leave anyone waiting in suspense.

 

[CudaChris67]

There are several alternatives for going "flat" (which usually means satin for most, it is easier to wash) DISCLAIMER: I am not a professional painter, but I worked at a body shop for a few years and did some painting so I know enough to be dangerous. Since the flat look is popular right now, there are several companies selling clear that is a satin finish right out of the can. This helps eliminate some of the trial and error of adding a flattening agent, and hopefully helps with matching. I think I would use something like this because you still have the UV protection you would with any other 2 stage paint job, but the flat look you are going for. There are probably many threads on this subject from people that are into this paint style.

I do recommend priming with a quality epoxy primer (black if you are going to paint it black anyway ) after you blast it so you aren't chasing reoccurring surface rust. Also I would consider not blasting the entire car. Doors, qtr panel, roofs, hoods and decklids are already stretched
and blasting can cause some serious warpage. I plan to use a soda blaster for my hood/trunk/doors. The soda blasters do not rely on brute force to remove paint, but rather some ionic reaction.

To remove the paint from the shell, I put some scratches in the paint with 40 grit, then applied paint stripper and used putty knifes to remove most of the base coat. I then cleaned it all up with a DA using 80 grit. I only used sandblasting on my firewall, wheel wells, and some floor areas that were rusty from standing water.

 

[harleydartguy]

This is all good advise. One thing I would do though is use polyester primer....very easy to work with and will hide minor flaws in sheet metal. jmho

 

[KosmicKuda]

Nice start. Don't diss that 383,just yet..A stock bottom end,484 Purple Shaft,bowl worked 906 castings,12's easy.

Yeah or stroke it to 431. The Low Block also gives you a little more room in the engine compartment.

You don't want to use 4130 steel for body work. You need a low carbon steel 10XX. 41XX steels are chromoly, higher strength so a thinner gage can be used but much harder to weld. (Think race car roll cages where a thinner tube can be used to save weight) I believe it has to be TIG welded.

"41xx steel is a family of SAE steel grades, as specified by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). Alloying elements include chromiumand molybdenum, and as a result these materials are often informally referred to as chromoly steel (common variant stylings include chrome-moly, CrMo, CRMO, CR-MOLY, and similar). They have an excellent strength to weight ratio and are considerably stronger and harder than standard 1020 steel, but are not easily welded (need pre and post weld thermal treatment to avoid cold cracking)."

I was in an automotive paint store about a month ago and noticed they had low sheen black on the shelf. (some call it suede) Can't remember the brand but it was already mixed. I don't know much but I know it takes just about as much work to do a quality low sheen paint job as a high gloss one.

Looks like you have a solid car to start with so that's good. Check AMD and other sources for patch panels.

 

[PocketAces]

If nothing else, get some good epoxy primer (black maybe) to get you started after you strip the paint. you can use filler right over the top of it, and seal it up with the same primer when you are done doing bodywork.

I just orders epoxy and hi fill (and clear coat) from Southern Polyurethanes: http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/

Ditto on the SPI Epoxy. It's great stuff. I used it after my Dart came back from media blast. I'm a total amateur and it sprayed beautifully out of my $10 harbor freight gun.

Body filler is porous and can absorb water if you have a scratch in your top coat or a pin hole in your metal work. Having epoxy under the filler protects the metal from that moisture. It also allows you to get the bare metal protected right away and then apply the filler later as time permits. Some car manufactures including Toyota require Epoxy Primer under filler to maintain their warranty protection for rust through.

It's best if you can apply your filler within the recoat window of the epoxy which is 7 days. But if you don't get it done that fast, it's OK to rough it up with some 80 grit.

I chose to do as much metal work as I could before media blast, so I could go straight to epoxy and then filler. But if you're blasting the car at home you will have more flexibility. You could do the car in sections so each section of metal gets protected right after it gets blasted. You could also blast the areas were you suspect rust first, get them repaired, and blast them again if they flash rust.

I also plan to apply epoxy primer over my filler. This will re-coat the bare metal areas around the filler and it will also provide a layer of contrasting color so I know when to stop block sanding the primer surfacer. I'm using Red Oxide epoxy primer and gray primer surfacer.

I don't have much input on the later stages since I haven't gotten that far with my project. I did talk to SPI about their primer surfacers. They have a 2K Regular Build Primer and a 2K High Build Primer. They say the Regular Build primer is equivalent to other company's High Build and that their High Build is even thicker and generally not needed. Based on their advice I bought the Regular Build, but have not tried it yet.

A local body shop owner turned me on to SPI because of his great experience with their clear coats which are much cheaper than other brands. But sounds like that won't apply for what you're doing.

Anyways, Best of Luck.

 

[CudaChris67]

This is all good advise. One thing I would do though is use polyester primer....very easy to work with and will hide minor flaws in sheet metal. jmho

Agree, but only after epoxy and initial body work.

 

[CudaChris67]

Ditto on the SPI Epoxy. It's great stuff. I used it after my Dart came back from media blast. I'm a total amateur and it sprayed beautifully out of my $10 harbor freight gun.

Body filler is porous and can absorb water if you have a scratch in your top coat or a pin hole in your metal work. Having epoxy under the filler protects the metal from that moisture. It also allows you to get the bare metal protected right away and then apply the filler later as time permits. Some car manufactures including Toyota require Epoxy Primer under filler to maintain their warranty protection for rust through.

It's best if you can apply your filler within the recoat window of the epoxy which is 7 days. But if you don't get it done that fast, it's OK to rough it up with some 80 grit.

I chose to do as much metal work as I could before media blast, so I could go straight to epoxy and then filler. But if you're blasting the car at home you will have more flexibility. You could do the car in sections so each section of metal gets protected right after it gets blasted. You could also blast the areas were you suspect rust first, get them repaired, and blast them again if they flash rust.

I also plan to apply epoxy primer over my filler. This will re-coat the bare metal areas around the filler and it will also provide a layer of contrasting color so I know when to stop block sanding the primer surfacer. I'm using Red Oxide epoxy primer and gray primer surfacer.

I don't have much input on the later stages since I haven't gotten that far with my project. I did talk to SPI about their primer surfacers. They have a 2K Regular Build Primer and a 2K High Build Primer. They say the Regular Build primer is equivalent to other company's High Build and that their High Build is even thicker and generally not needed. Based on their advice I bought the Regular Build, but have not tried it yet.

A local body shop owner turned me on to SPI because of his great experience with their clear coats which are much cheaper than other brands. But sounds like that won't apply for what you're doing.

Anyways, Best of Luck.

agreed. I also did my major metal (trunk floor) before media and primer
I found spi the same way.
although, spi has matte clear now too...

 

[JungleCrow]

Thanks for the info. I forgot to mention that Im using Black Diamond coal slag from Tractor Supply. According to Gas Monkey, it does not warp the metal. I havent seen any stretch or warpage yet. I also have the Harbor Frieght paint gun combo. I have painted a lot of other things in the past but not a car.

I mean I could definitely go with a "regular" paint job. I like the flat and havent even seen a car around here with it. Buuuuuut... If the 2 stage and all will protect my car longer and better, I might just go with that. A Hemi Orange, White or Black. Man, Im so boring...

It sounds I might need to just patch the obvious areas that I can see w/o blasting cuz I need a good compressor and paint. Right now I have just been blasting/sanding/repair and then hitting it with can primer. Im completely jumping the gun Im so excited. Sounds like I should go in sections instead, repair, blast then prime.

Thanks for the engine info. I had thought of doing the 440 Source kit but a more milder one than 496. I like all the input and the more the better. Will save me sooooo much time in blind research. More time to weld, grind, sand and paint.

Here are some more recent photos. I plan on removing the drip rail. Its rusty on the other side anyhow. I would also like to somehow make the new glass fit in the front and back w/o the chrome trim. I already removed all the screwed in tabs that hold the trm in once the glass is set. I had thought about just filling the gap with the windshield 3M sealant. Anyone know what Im talking about? Whats a solution here?

Found some cowl damage so that will have to come off. Gas tank had a hole. I have welded gas tanks in the military but didnt want to mess with it; going fuel cell. The original joint sealant sucks more than it seals. Best way to be ride of it completely?

I still need to remove a lot of stuff and get this thing on a rotisserie or something.

My little helper was back. Oh and I got lights in the shed. :headbang:

 

[PocketAces]

Right now I have just been blasting/sanding/repair and then hitting it with can primer. Im completely jumping the gun Im so excited. Sounds like I should go in sections instead, repair, blast then prime.

If you're going to go to all the trouble to blast it to bare metal, then you should get a good epoxy primer for you bottom layer. I don't think you want rattle can paint as the foundation for your entire paint job. Unless the rattle can paint is for temporary protection and you plan to blast it off again.

 

[sireland67]

Black beautys media WILL warp your exterior panels if you are too aggresive, you will not notice it until you lay some quality primer on a panel and start block sanding, by then it is too late.

To remove the paint off of exterior surfaces use aircraft stripper in a well vented area. It will remove 95% of the paint, you can then DA sand to remove the remaining paint.

 

[JungleCrow]

If you're going to go to all the trouble to blast it to bare metal, then you should get a good epoxy primer for you bottom layer. I don't think you want rattle can paint as the foundation for your entire paint job. Unless the rattle can paint is for temporary protection and you plan to blast it off again.

Just temp until I get a better quality compressor that doesnt lose air pressure after the initial squeeze. I plan on going over it again when I hit the whole section. No trouble. Easy as pie.

 

[cosgig]

Looks like you're moving right along, maybe with your brothers help, but i think the biggest contributor is your little pal there. Man, is he cute!!! I think he should pick the color!! Just put your selections in front of him and whichever color he sniffs first, thats the color I'd go with!!

Yep, thats what I'd do!! And take him to the beach, he's probably a great chick magnet!! Geof

 

[JungleCrow]

Black beautys media WILL warp your exterior panels if you are too aggresive, you will not notice it until you lay some quality primer on a panel and start block sanding, by then it is too late.

To remove the paint off of exterior surfaces use aircraft stripper in a well vented area. It will remove 95% of the paint, you can then DA sand to remove the remaining paint.

Im not using Black Beauty. BB is different from Black Diamond at least in appearance and according to courseness. It was used on multiple car tv shows saying it doesnt warp. Thanks for the tip though. unfortunately, its too late for the places I blasted. If it is warped then oh well. At least the rust is gone and will have a good sleeper car project Ill use some strippers from now on.

 

[JungleCrow]

Looks like you're moving right along, maybe with your brothers help, but i think the biggest contributor is your little pal there. Man, is he cute!!! I think he should pick the color!! Just put your selections in front of him and whichever color he sniffs first, thats the color I'd go with!!

Yep, thats what I'd do!! And take him to the beach, he's probably a great chick magnet!! Geof

Took him the beach last weekend. He is definitely a magnet. His sister, on the other hand, keeps the **** blockers at bay.

The funny thing is my brother did all of this with the import scene. When I ask him questions, he just tells me I dont know. Says it was too long ago to remember. 4 years ago or something. haha. If he stays around these parts Im sure he will help out when he wants.

I've never done paint before. Everything else Im pretty much good to go on.

 

[Woods74]

Start a restoration thread when you get a chance.

When you step up to paint, think about getting a HF purple gun and spraying it, you have the space. Tons of information on how to do it. One of the many weekends this is gonna take, catch up on a powerblock tv musclecar episode online when they paint a car.

You aren't scared of anything else, why this?

Think hard about using a quality paint, I was in your shoes, first it was rustoleum, then it was single stage, then it became BC/CC.

The turning point was when I came to realize Rustoleum is non catalyzed. Which means it cures by air, and not chemical, so it isn't as tough and it will eventually look like crap after a couple years in the sun. Not to mention the amount of work it takes to get a good finish. Sand sand sand. Too much work when you can spray it once and do a little cut and buff, done. If that's not enough, to top it off, you have to strip it off if you want a real paint job otherwise it will wrinkle.

Here is a great source for quality paint, the price is right. Summit epoxy and primer isn't bad either if you want to save more.

http://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/rspubprod.aspx

 

[Idaho]

First off, to blast a whole car, hope you've got a BIG compressor or don't mind waiting around a lot.

You can blast without warping if you are careful. Keep moving and keep some angle.

SPI black epoxy is the only primer I know of that actually has UV inhibitors. Not as good as regular top coat but much better than most flat blacks without UV protection. Not too spendy.

Don't let the bare metal sit long after blasting. If it has to sit more than a few days, put a protectant on it. SPI sells one. Washes off with soap and water.

 

[JungleCrow]

Start a restoration thread when you get a chance.

When you step up to paint, think about getting a HF purple gun and spraying it, you have the space. Tons of information on how to do it. One of the many weekends this is gonna take, catch up on a powerblock tv musclecar episode online when they paint a car.

You aren't scared of anything else, why this?

Think hard about using a quality paint, I was in your shoes, first it was rustoleum, then it was single stage, then it became BC/CC.

The turning point was when I came to realize Rustoleum is non catalyzed. Which means it cures by air, and not chemical, so it isn't as tough and it will eventually look like crap after a couple years in the sun. Not to mention the amount of work it takes to get a good finish. Sand sand sand. Too much work when you can spray it once and do a little cut and buff, done. If that's not enough, to top it off, you have to strip it off if you want a real paint job otherwise it will wrinkle.

Here is a great source for quality paint, the price is right. Summit epoxy and primer isn't bad either if you want to save more.

http://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/rspubprod.aspx

I didnt know where to put this thread or what to name it. There is a restoration section?

The one I have might be purple. Ya, now that I read more I will probably go with the good stuff. So I wont be that dark machine creepin up in the rearview of mustangs and so forth. And Ill have to learn to shoot clear coat right, wet sand, buff and then wax my car later on. Then I can piss and moan when some A hole throws up a rock or parks next to me in the furthest corner of the parking lot and door checks my car. hahaha. Well worth painting less and having optimum protection which is really what Im trying to shoot for especially after all the work put into it. Thanks a ton for the info. Seriously, I even gave you a thanks.

 

[JungleCrow]

First off, to blast a whole car, hope you've got a BIG compressor or don't mind waiting around a lot.

You can blast without warping if you are careful. Keep moving and keep some angle.

SPI black epoxy is the only primer I know of that actually has UV inhibitors. Not as good as regular top coat but much better than most flat blacks without UV protection. Not too spendy.

Don't let the bare metal sit long after blasting. If it has to sit more than a few days, put a protectant on it. SPI sells one. Washes off with soap and water.

My 26 gallon compressor holds up but the regulator acts weird so I think I might get a 60 gallon one.

Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it!!!!

 

[Idaho]

More gallons helps for the first 2 minutes or so, then its all about CFM. When blasting I use two compressors plumbed together, each puts out about 10 cfm at 90 psi so total about 20. Just enough for continuous blasting.

 

[Woods74]

Yep there is a restoration section, in the "general off-topic fourms" 3rd link down. You'll find my build there. Not trying to throw salt in your game, I'm happy to see you avoid a potential pitfall. I think you'll find that BC/CC is an easier process if you make a mistake. Enjoy the ride, it's quite a long one.

 

[Woods74]

One more thing about tcpglobal, if you look up item # on ebay they are chaper shipped.