Need advice on frame connectors

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4spdcuda66

4spdcuda66

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I'm going to fab up a set of 2X2 subframe connectors and weld them in front and rear. My car as it sits is sans engine and trans and the door latches are not on at this time. I have questions. With the engine out, will the weight difference matter? Do I need to latch the doors to keep everything stiffened up? Should I work with the car sitting on four ramps so the weight is on the wheels or on jack stands? It seems to me that having the weight on the wheels makes more sense. For you guys that have experience in this area, please educate me. Thanks, Drew
 
The 2 x 2 tubing will work good. That's what I used on my Duster. As for car position, I think that either on tires or on stands is OK. Just get high enough to weld and work on it. Just level the frame/rocker panel to keep it straight. If you don't have latches in then have doors shut and check gaps to be sure aligned right. I did mine on a floor hoist so it was easy to work on, and it still aligned body panels and doors. Engine & trans out is OK.
 
4spdcuda66 said:
I'm going to fab up a set of 2X2 subframe connectors and weld them in front and rear. My car as it sits is sans engine and trans and the door latches are not on at this time. I have questions. With the engine out, will the weight difference matter? Do I need to latch the doors to keep everything stiffened up? Should I work with the car sitting on four ramps so the weight is on the wheels or on jack stands? It seems to me that having the weight on the wheels makes more sense. For you guys that have experience in this area, please educate me. Thanks, Drew
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It is imperitive that the engine and trans are in the car.The car should be fully weighted before you install them. It is also important for the car to be level when you weld them in.Ramps on level ground is ok,but the best would be on a drive on lift.
 
4spd,
First of all please consider 1 1/2" x 3" and dont cut your floors, just weld to them. The 3" will slide right over the rear rail and be very strong. I agree that you need your car square to the ground, but when the factory makes up the frame there is no drive train in the car.
Check out my thread on the frame connectors I put in.
Andrew
 
Thanks for the responses guys. I've checked other sites as well and I'm getting conflicting advice on wheather or not to do this with the engine out. Some say it doesn't matter one way or the other and some say not to even attempt it with the engine out. Will you please elborate on this? I only want to do this job once and I want to do it right. Thanks.
 
With no engine in the car, you should put the car on jack stands or what ever you use, under the frame in the area under the firewall and in front of the rear spring area. Make sure the car is level all the way around. Check to make sure you doors open and close nicely with the gaps still the same.

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With mine (70 Duster); 2 jackstands under k-frame, each side; 2 at front pillar; 2 at front of rear spring area; 2 at rear bumper crossmember. Leveled it it both directions, and back halved, sub frame, cage, etc. Door gap never moved. We will see, when it hits the floor. A buddy found a book, for his 69 Charger- It shows where the factory supported the body, while installing everything. I was close to factory on the Duster, but think it will work.
Support the car at both sides at the k-frame, and the subframe, at the front of the rear spring hangers- level those 4 points; then jack and shim both ends.
Make marks on the floor, so you can square the rear. And don't make my mistake. For center points, use the center of the front ball joints, to the center of the rear spring eyes.
Now the front and mid is aligned; chalk line the floor from your now centered chassis, and use plumb bobs to keep the back half in line.
 
You want the least amount of stuff on the car as possible. Ideal would be a bare chassis. The engine and rear are heavy and will cause the body to twist if not supported correctly. I support the car on the frame right in front of the t-bar mount and at the front spring perch in the rear. Level it up and weld them in. If your rear is still in i would support that to, just enough to take the weight off the chassis.
 
I agree less weight the better. But its very important to tack weld all parts in and skip around on both sides at the same time. Spreads out heat and builds stiffnes without warp.
 
I did mine sans engine / trans, but leveled on jack stands. I also used 1-1/2" x 3" and did not have to cut my floors. It slid over the rear crossmember, and welded flush against the front. Just my 2 cents
 
Johnny Dart said:
It is imperitive that the engine and trans are in the car.The car should be fully weighted before you install them. It is also important for the car to be level when you weld them in.Ramps on level ground is ok,but the best would be on a drive on lift.
Click to expand...
Will you elaborate on why the eng./trans. need to be in the car? Most of these guys have done theirs with the engine out and had no problems. I just want the best of both ends of this debate. Thanks.
 
4spdcuda66 said:
Will you elaborate on why the eng./trans. need to be in the car? Most of these guys have done theirs with the engine out and had no problems. I just want the best of both ends of this debate. Thanks.
Click to expand...

You can use the jackstand method. You must make sure the car is level
front-to-back side-to-side. If it is not,the subframe connectors,when welded will hold it that way.

That is why I like to get the car in the position where it is going to set,and then weld them in.
 
Johnny Dart said:
It is imperitive that the engine and trans are in the car.The car should be fully weighted before you install them. It is also important for the car to be level when you weld them in.Ramps on level ground is ok,but the best would be on a drive on lift.
Click to expand...

This method doesnt make sense to me but i may be missing something. Isnt the point of the subframe connectors to counteract chassis flex. If all the weight of the car is on the wheels you are technically flexing the chassis. You need to get all the forces acting on the car neutral and the car level. If the chassis is loaded then it wouldnt be straight when welded together.
 
It is best to have the car supported by the suspention, that way all the weight is "srung" and you can weld so that unibody won't be twisted and doors will open and close the way they are supposed to.
 
Johnny Dart said:
You can use the jackstand method. You must make sure the car is level
front-to-back side-to-side. If it is not,the subframe connectors,when welded will hold it that way.

That is why I like to get the car in the position where it is going to set,and then weld them in.
Click to expand...
Gotcha, thank you.
 
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