Need Help Badly!!!!!

[MoparBrit]

Okay, car is '71 Dart Swinger, 225 Auto on column, made in CA if that makes any difference.

Here is the issue. Waiting on my factory manual so looked though the posts here on how to get the instrument cluster out. According to what I read, you disconnect the battery, take the column cover off, remove the three bolts holding the column up, remove the two bolts on the small plate at the bottom of the column, remove the screws retaining the instrument cluster, reach in from underneath and disconnect the speedo cable and then supposedly the cluster will come out and you can reach back and disconnect the plugs.

Well, of course, not on any car I would own. I've got all done to the point of supposedly being able to pull the cluster and disconnect the harness bits.

Here is what I have run into. The column only drops down about three inches. Not hanging on any wiring I could see. The speedo cable connection is on sort of a dropped down box to the cluster. As such the cluster would have to pull out from the top and pivot out to remove as the speedo connection bit is "hooked" as it were, behind the dash metal. Thinking that I just need to disconnect the plug I felt around on the back of the cluster. I found two flat plugs, one on each side of the rear of the cluster that I was able to wiggle off the pins on the cluster and get off. I've not been able to feel any huge round plug or anything like that and I still am unable to see up in there very well due to all the metal braces around the column and for the pedals etc. So, cluster moves a bit more in the pivot out type direction, but not enough to get a hand back there from the front or even see what is going on.

On feeling around it appears there is some sort of metal clip or something holding a very thick, pretty unflexible wiring harness that looks to run from one side of the dash to the other. I don't believe it is any sort of plug or anything, but who knows. From all I can see and everything I can feel the harness is running by and is somehow clipped to this tang off the back of the cluster. A similar deal to the clips holding the harness in place in the engine compartment if that makes sense. The harness just feels to be clipped somehow to hold it in place and not actually connected to the cluster for any signal, power or ground. Anyway, looks like that harness clip is what is holding the whole cluster from pivoting enough for me to see the back and get to it if needed so I can remove it.

I know I'm long winded, sorry. Hope I'm making sense on the harness part. The clip is not the same as the ones in the engine compartment so don't know how to get this one loose. Anyone run into the same thing? What have I missed? The tang thing the harness is stuck on does not go all the way around the harness from what little I can see or feel. Feels like it is hooked somehow on the top of the harness. I've tried prying it with my fingers while pulling on the harness etc. and no luck.

Really frustrated on how everyones seemingly doddle of a job always turns into a major issue for me.:sad3:

Even got me putting emotion buttons in it is that bad.

So, know all of you have been there and done that so please help.

Thanks in advance.
Cheers

 

[Rob]

Hmmm, I just took one out of a 75 Dart the other day, should be similar. Things that held it in place:

About 5 screws in the bezel, 2 or 3 at the top facing straight down and 2 or 3 lower down staring right at you.

The knob and retaining nut on the wiper switch, the one on the right, I think it's the wiper (never drove this car)

The speedo cable, it's a clip and you just pry it off with the clip released

The wiring harness is held in place with bent over metal tabs about an inch wide by 3 inches long, just straighten them with your hand, they're very pliable.

It was a little sticky coming out but once it freed up I was able to pull it out and see what and where to disconnect the wiring.

I'm parting the car out so I already had the sterring column out of the car making it easier to move around. I assume your coulmn will only drop so much because it's still connected to the sterring box.

Hope this helps, I can totally relate to your every little thing is a freakin nightmare, you should have heard me cursing the Mopar engineers when I took all the front suspension out. I could have taken 10 Chevys apart in that time, oops, did I say that [-X

 

[MoparBrit]

Hi, Thanks very much for the post!

Trust my instrument cluster to be different. Hmmm, wait, on the '75 I think you have the large cluster if I'm not mistaken. I should have said (Sorry I didn't mention, upon reflection probably pretty important detail) my instrument cluster looks like the earlier 70 or so. The cluster is the narrow long one. I'll see if I can dig up the picture I have of the dash and post it.

I was lucky on my front suspension. Air tools helped for sure as I'd be worn out otherwise. This job is doing me in as it is. Doesn't help that I'm pretty large and not really supposed to be trying to stand on my head under the dash to get this thing out. Probably take me a week to recover, lol. Thanks again for the post. Sounds like our dashes are different though. I do appreciate your trying to help!!

Ah, here is a pic. Hope this works.

 

[Rob]

Yup, you're right, they're different, typical. I figured they would be the same, the 75 Adrt is almost identical to my 70 Duster, 3 small gauges on the left and an almost square speedo. I hate having to climb under dashes and I'm just an average size guy. Good luck, needless to say once you get it out it will look like it should have been simple.

 

[flyboy01]

I had the same problem, I broke mine pulling it out. :-x

I did notice that it was hanging up on the cluster lights and the voltage regulator. Try pulling those out first. TO drop the collumn any more, you will have to remove it completely.

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

Hi, Thanks very much for the post!

Trust my instrument cluster to be different. Hmmm, wait, on the '75 I think you have the large cluster if I'm not mistaken. I should have said (Sorry I didn't mention, upon reflection probably pretty important detail) my instrument cluster looks like the earlier 70 or so. The cluster is the narrow long one. I'll see if I can dig up the picture I have of the dash and post it.

I was lucky on my front suspension. Air tools helped for sure as I'd be worn out otherwise. This job is doing me in as it is. Doesn't help that I'm pretty large and not really supposed to be trying to stand on my head under the dash to get this thing out. Probably take me a week to recover, lol. Thanks again for the post. Sounds like our dashes are different though. I do appreciate your trying to help!!

Ah, here is a pic. Hope this works.

I just took mine out, I have a 69 Dart which is simular to yous,Sounds like your almost there, the wiring harness unhooks from the strap which alows you to rotate it in a downward motion to come out. It's a ***** to get clear of the metal frame as the cluster hangs down behind it.

 

[MoparBrit]

Thanks for the replies everyone! Decided to give it a rest until today. Better that than get a bit heated and break something.

How does the harness unhook from that clip thing? I can't see it and am mostly going off feel so I don't really know if there is a trick to it or you just prise the thing off as best you can.

Thanks for the tip on the bulb thing two. I'll watch that.

Cheers

 

[RedFish]

I want to help but all I can offer is how I do it. First I must point out that the factory did make the harness branches long enough to be servicable. I.ve never fecked with those main harness clips to pull the inst. panel.
Now If the car is colum shift automatic, set the park brake as lowring the colum will take it out of park. I pull those down into drive anyway to get shift lever out of my way.
I wont fight the connecter on the headlight switch either. One screw holds the fuse box, take it out to access the release button on that switch and remove switch stem/knob. Screw off the switch nut and remove from panel. I put all the switch pieces back together and leave it lay there in the dash housing.
Pull out on this side of inst. panel and you should be able to see the speedo cable. Grab that cable housing and pull it toward the panel. It will almost push the panel out of dash and give you the slack you' will appreciate when reconnecting.
The retainer on the speedo cable is similar to hallf of a clothes pin Wrap and hand around cable and it , squeeze and pull away from panel.
Sure hope this helps.

 

[memike]

Just wanted to say good morning and I hope all go's well for ya.:hello2:
I wish I could help, But I have never dun this.
Someone will be with you soon.
Enjoy the time you get with you great car.:happy3:

 

['74 Sport]

One suggestion you might consider...
Get a mechanics mirror (one of those on a telescoping shaft) or a small compact mirror that you can steal (borrow) from your wife or girlfriend. Hold it behind the dash and shine a flashlight at it to reflect back at the rear of the dash. That will illuminate the area in question and give you a good view of what's going on back there.

This may not help if there is too much difference from my son's '74 Dart Sport, but here are the back of the dash (showing how the harness is held with the tangs) and the back of the instrument cluster (showing the headlight switch, wiper switch, circular main harness terminals, speedometer connection, and ammeter terminals).

Jerry

 

[MoparBrit]

Hi, Back on the board finally. Thanks for all the replies. Sure is nice to have such a great board and people willing to help.

I didn't get a chance to have at it yesterday, but hope I can get in there today. I'll give a go at the mirror. I should have thought of it, but hard to think of anything when your arm is stuck up in the bottom of the dash and you are too busy #$%%^^^^$###'ing the car! lol.

Thanks for all the replies and the step by steps on getting the cluster out. Mine is a bit different being the earlier one so luckily don't have to muck with the headlamp switch etc. I think I actually have everything important unhooked it is just that harness that runs across the back of it that seems to be clipped to it some how. Sort of a springy type metal by the feel of it and only located on the top of it. I don't think there is some sort of plug there although I will give a go at squeezing the metal tang towards the harness and see if it is some sort of release for one. Feels just like it is some clip thing to hold the harness from flopping around. If it is, I don't know why they could not have just used those nice bendy ones, like in your picture above, so you could just fold it out of the way.

The tang that is holding the harness is just above where the speedo cable went. Mention as perhaps that rings a bell with someone.

Hope I can get the thing out today. Want to go work on it now, but I guess the neighbours would frown on an oversize Brit, upside down under the dash with a flash light, yelling at the harness, car, cluster etc. etc. at 5:48 in the AM.

Cheers

 

[7demon2]

mopar brit they are right on. i just pulled my wifes dash completly out of her 71 swinger last week including the front face plates with the woodgrain. it isn't easy but not that bad. i had to loosen the three bolts that hold the column in on the firewall to drop it down far enough for the dash to tilt out. you will need to remove the light bulb sockets that screw into the back as well. it seems like everything is in the way. it is a tight fit. i had to pry it out with a little force. becareful though as you will crack it! good luck

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

I took a couple of pics that might help. By the way anyone have acouple of the little black bulb holders that twist in the back of the cluster? I need two of them.

 

[MoparBrit]

WOW WOW WOW. THANKS!

That is the very clip and area. I need to get in there and unhook it then and also pop the bulb holders out of the top to clear as mentioned also. Amazing help from all! Thanks! Thanks! Thanks!

Best plan was to get out there and work on the car after getting some nosh in the house. Well, twisted a knee getting out of the car so that put paid to me doing anything today. B%%%%y knees! Really ready to get into it now with all the great help. Taking the cluster out to check the petrol gauge and see if I can test it out of the car and then also do that mod that gets rid of the old voltage thing. Went to Radio Shack and picked up the pieces needed, now just need to get in there and do the job. While it is out I'll have a sniff about and see how the wires and plugs are behind there as well.

I'll keep you posted.

Cheers

 

[MoparBrit]

Said I would update everyone when I got chance. Well, cluster is out!

Could not get the plastic ring thing on the harness to come off the metal clip. Ended up reaching up and snipping it with some clippers on each side. Fun let, me tell you, as could not see anything (did I forget to mention the car has factory underdash air conditioning all in the way as well??). Then the harness was hooked on the speedo stub out. Got that loose. Then would still not clear the dash. The bottom metal lip on the speedo pod part where the cable goes hooked itself good on the lower part of the metal dash. I had to pry up on the top part of the dash to get it to pivot enough to get the rear part of the housing to clear the upper part of the dash. Could not reach all the bulb holders so ended up breaking a few to get it out. Finally it did come out and luckily I did not break anything else that I can see on it.

Thanks everyone for the help. Sort of dreading getting it back in place now. At least it will be a while before I do. Got to test the petrol and circuits on it, do that voltage box swap to the chip and sort out some replacement bulb holders. I think I saw similar at Pep Boys in the HELP section.

With how bothersome it was to get out makes me think that the factory put the trim piece on from the outside and the backer with the connections on from the inside of the dash, lol.

Cheers