Need help from the paint pros

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amzchad

amzchad

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Well i am buying a paint gun kit from eastwood and am almost done with the body work on the firebird. I am now ready to start sanding on the rest of the car. I have a few questions though

I have acess to all the sanders and blocks and everything i need along with a paint booth

What should i sand with and should i take it to bare metal?
What primer should i use?
Should i use a guide coat after primer?
What base coat?
What clear coat?


Basically what process should i do

here is the color i wanna use its the stock 67 pontiac firebird red

also i dont wanna spend a huge amount of cash

Thanks

Chad

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red is alot of money to begin with its an expensive color but will look killer good luck
 
Chad I would only take down to bare metal where needed unless you are doing a full resto on it , which I take your not. You will have to fix any rust and other body work, and not knowing how many coats are on there. If that is the factory paint I would just DA it with some 320 and shoot your base clear. Why spend money on alot of primer when the factory stuff is still holding up after 40 years?
I have been using a productcalled Limco for my base and shooting u-pol clear.
It not high dollar but works good and looks nice.
I thnk I paid 160 per gallon of color plus reducer 80?
Clear was @150 total I think.
Are you guys are using water based paint yet.
Goog luck

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Amzchad,

I don't even know where to begin. (LOL)

Reds, Yellows, and Oranges are the most expensive colours, in any brand of paint.

I prefer 2k base/clear paints because you can colour sand and polish if so desired. If applied properly (evenly) and the car is a daily driver the 2k material makes a nice finished product.

I'll try to keep the prep part simple. I strongly suggest you read several books on refinishing before you jump into a complete paint job for the first time. Miscues can be costly and time consuming. A job well done can be very rewarding, one you will always remember.


Step 1: checking the overall condition of the car

Check the car over carefully. You are looking for small dents and noting the general condition of the paint. I hope most or all the brightwork (trim) has been removed. I prefer to have the car elevated, it's easier on the back.

If you see small dents they can be repaired with a 2k spot putty. The key word is "small". Read the label on the can. There are a multitude of 2k spot repair putties out there, some require different repair processes. Some are very poor quality but I won't get into that. If you're checking the whole car for dents , etc. in one go I like to use painters tape to mark each dent, major imperfection. This way very few get overlooked during the repair prep process. Some painters use chalk or a marker of some kind, not a good practice.

If the painted surface (panel) is checked, crazed, or badly scarred I strongly suggest you strip that panel completely. It'll be easier than trying to save it by sanding for hours on end.

Small imperfections such as chips and scratches can be sanded.



Step 2 - Sanding (feathering)

Chips and minor surface imperfections can be sanded out by using 180-220 grit wet or dry paper, closely followed by 320 and 400 grit wet or dry paper. I prefer to finish sand with 600 wet but it's not necessary for what you are doing. Finish sand with 400 grit wet or dry paper.

A good rule of thumb is when you are feathering (sanding) an imperfection and run into the various layers of paint, sand leaving a 1/4 inch ring for every layer of material. When you're done an area it will look like the rings of a tree when it's cross-sectioned.

Step 3 - Priming

Please note that it's not necessary to prime the entire car, provided the previous finish is in good condition. You'l have to be the judge on this call.

I strongly suggest using a 2k high build repair primer, apply 2-3 overlapping coats should cover most sanded /repaired areas. If the impefection is still visible I suggest you hand block the repaired or primered area with 320 grit dry or wet and recoat.

Step 4 - final sand

This is the last step of a quick repaint. Sand entire car, machine or hand sand, wet or dry, which ever you are comfortable with. Sand 1 panel at a time, blow it or wipe it off and check that panel for imperfections. If it's OK move on to the next panel, if not redo the panel before moving on.


Step 5 clean the entire car

Blow the entire car off, wash with soap and water. Wet and dry wipe with a prep sol or 50/50 alcohol and water solution.


Step 6 - mask and shoot

Mask, and move in into the booth or mask the car in the booth.

Tack it and shoot it.

FYI - buy a decent spray gun, it's worth it in the long run. Binks and Devilbiss are my favorites. Gravity or suction feeds are also options you have.

Good Luck!!

sscuda
 
Do you have a Macco paint shop around. Our local one will run some good specials from time to time that come out to be the same cost as you buying the paint. You could do the body work and have them shoot the paint on it.
 
Just a quick question for you: what's the overall condition of the paint right now? Original paint on this would be lacquer. Any crows' footing? Any areas where crows footed lacquer would be letting moisture through to lead or bare underneath? I've taken a lot of GMs down to bare and have little crows' feet rust spots all over the metal. Just something to look for. Because of this I've also had every GM convertible we've done also wind up with rust under the lead seams at the filler panel behind the top.
Yes, taking it to bare is a pain in the a**, and I know you're trying to get by cheap. You're trying to get it out the door in a hurry to get the money for the Mopar build, but you're also building your reputation on this. Any more deals come along like this which you decide to put out there on the block and any shortcuts on this one might wind up hurting you in the long run on the next one by word of mouth.
Not trying to advocate either way, just giving more food for thought, and problems to focus on is all.
By the way, I know red is expensive, as everyone's pointed out to you, but this car will hold it's value more if the paint code on the car actually matches the color when you're done.
 
ramenth said:
Just a quick question for you: what's the overall condition of the paint right now? Original paint on this would be lacquer. Any crows' footing? Any areas where crows footed lacquer would be letting moisture through to lead or bare underneath? I've taken a lot of GMs down to bare and have little crows' feet rust spots all over the metal. Just something to look for. Because of this I've also had every GM convertible we've done also wind up with rust under the lead seams at the filler panel behind the top.
Yes, taking it to bare is a pain in the a**, and I know you're trying to get by cheap. You're trying to get it out the door in a hurry to get the money for the Mopar build, but you're also building your reputation on this. Any more deals come along like this which you decide to put out there on the block and any shortcuts on this one might wind up hurting you in the long run on the next one by word of mouth.
Not trying to advocate either way, just giving more food for thought, and problems to focus on is all.
By the way, I know red is expensive, as everyone's pointed out to you, but this car will hold it's value more if the paint code on the car actually matches the color when you're done.
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Well said Robert.
 
Personally I would strip the car to bare metal. Etch prime or epoxy prime it, 4 coats of 2K and block it with 180. Fix any problem spots, Re prime and block with 320. You shouldnt have many spots to fix this time around. Then prime again and block with 400 wet. Seal and paint it.

Red will hide a good amount of imperfections if you miss a few small spots.

Be prepared the price of materials is expensive. The 2K primer I use is $150 a gallon setup. You will use at least 2 gallons. Epoxy and etch primer is more expensive yet.

The gallon of red paint I used on the Dart was $850, plus 2 gallons of clear was another $300

Dont forget, Sand paper, Masking paper, Masking tape, Mixing cups, stick and strainers, A good respirator, etc.
 
lots of info here thanks alot for the help

i am definetly getting a devilbiss gun kit from eastwood that comes with everything

the paint is original except for one panel i believe but because im not sure i may just take it down to bare metal

body is very straight and i only found damage in the front

im gonna paint each panel at a time as in a fender hood and so on

thanks for all the help
 
what brand of paint should i use and i want to save the most i can but i really want a good paint job on this car
 
I stripped my Duster with Aircraft Stripper and then used a D/A sander on all body panels then sent the body off to the body guy I used and he finished it up from there. He told me that I probably saved $700-$1000 by stripping the car myself.
 
amzchad said:
what brand of paint should i use and i want to save the most i can but i really want a good paint job on this car
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You have a few choices on paint to work with that will give you a good basecoat and clear option while saving on the pocketbook. PPG's Omni and Shopline products have a full range of primers, bases, and clears. The Shopline seems to lay in a bit better than Omni as far as the basecoats go. As far as clears I've had success with Transtar in the past. Seems to hold up well, and flows pretty good.
From the photos this looks like GM's Cardinal red, which is a solid color, no metallics, which means you can get by with a single stage in either Omni or Shopline also, saving yourself the cost of the clear and another painting step.
As for stripping the car, I've done it all ways: chemical strippers, mechanically with the DA, media blasting on low pressure. If you feel like chemically stripping, but don't want to paint the jambs and such you'll need to mask those areas with a good (3M or American Tape PG27) masking tape, and a few layers of it to keep any stripper off the paint you don't want to strip. And make sure you keep it off the top!
 
amzchad said:
im gonna paint each panel at a time as in a fender hood and so on
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Could you elaborate on this so I can under this statement better? Painting one panel at a time? As in today you're gonna paint the hood, tomorrow you're gonna paint both fenders, the next day and so on? Not a good idea. Just to let you know that sometimes temp, humidity, reduction amounts, hardener amounts, variations in undercoat colors, can cause a color change in the top coat. True it will be by a small amount, but once all the panels are bolted to the car, that small amount can be very noticable side by side.
 
not to hi-jack this thread, sorry if i am, but when mixing your reducer and paint what is your ratio, one to the other?
 
ramenth said:
Could you elaborate on this so I can under this statement better? Painting one panel at a time? As in today you're gonna paint the hood, tomorrow you're gonna paint both fenders, the next day and so on? Not a good idea. Just to let you know that sometimes temp, humidity, reduction amounts, hardener amounts, variations in undercoat colors, can cause a color change in the top coat. True it will be by a small amount, but once all the panels are bolted to the car, that small amount can be very noticable side by side.
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This is very true and is more noticable on metallic colors.
All the above mentioned plus supply air pressure,distance.overlap and speed of travel cause color variations.
Personally, I don't have the grapes to panel paint any color car........well maybe a solid black.....lol
 
i could definately be wrong and this is just my opinion but unless the underside and interior are very nice in that car I would not paint over the original paint. If it still needs interior or motor or any kind of a restoration effort then to many people the car is more valuable with the original paint as nothing can be hidden. If you clean compound wax and buff that paint I am sure it would make a huge difference. If it is a project car and you spend two grand to paint it on the cheap it may not make the car worth that much (two grand) more. Just something to think about I personally would rather have original paint even if not perfect (and that includes a whole panel of primer) over a freshhhhh paint job. Just my input but good luck with whatever you do hopefully you can make some cash to spend on that mopar
 
72swinger83 said:
not to hi-jack this thread, sorry if i am, but when mixing your reducer and paint what is your ratio, one to the other?
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Every vendor should be able to supply you a manufacturer P-sheet (product information sheet) on the paint you're using which will include reduction ratios, reducer temp usage (if you're spraying at this temp, use this reducer), hardener info, base guideline pressure to spray at, etc.
For instance, I spray a lot of PPG. Deltron DBC basecoat is a 1:1 mix with the 2002 clear over it is a 4:1:1 mix. While DBU basecoat is a 1.5:1 mix and Concept clear with a speed hardner is a 4:2:1 mix. So you need to be able to know this before going in on the product and that's where the P-sheet for your product is a must. Not just for the paint and primers, but ask for a P-sheet on the reducers and the hardeners, too, as this will give you an idea of which reducer will flash out the best for a given temp. and which hardener will give you the best flow time for your paint environment.
 
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