Hey guys so I'm new to rebuilding engines, I just bought a 318 small block 68 and I am trying to find all what I need.my goal is to he. Around 400 hp, I am still trying to figure out what parts to get and what wiring harness to get please help I need help an I'm willing to learn and listen to all suggestions. The engine will be getting put into a 1964 barracuda.
Need help on first time rebuild 318!!
- Thread starter Sbonez
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65_valiant
Well-Known Member
While I'm not a seasoned builder, I know that if you havent spent any money on this so far, don't. You'll be MUCH MUCH farther ahead looking for a 360 setup and buy that. Someone with more experiance can chip in here and tell you what exactly to look for, I'm guessing they'll tall you a late 80's-early 90's roller block. The power/$ ratio is MUCH better with the bigger cubes. You can sell that 318 to someone for some money to go toward your 360 build.
FJ5
Well-Known Member
X2^ then bore and stroke that 360 to a 408 and be really happy.
cudaracer
Well-Known Member
or forget buying yet another shortblock, and just stroke that 318 to 390.
The 360 does offer more cubes and potential, but if you have a good 318 motor already and want to use it, it will work fine. The question to ask is "do you really want 400 hp or is it just fun to say?" I mean, whats your experience? If its really what you want, then there are articles (hot rod magazine did a junk yard 400 hp 318 that will step by step ya). But if your not sure, just through out a horsepower number, then reconsider. If you want a mild mannered, nice street cruis'n car, then 300-350 hp with that 318 is very easily obtained and keep'n it low cost and street friendly. And, you'll be very impressed how hard a true 325 horsepower 318 would pull that A-body. But if you want a street friendly, mild mannered 400+ horsepower street small block, it will be more money and probably a stroker of something...
The wiring harrnass can be cut and splice to make shorter or longer.
Parts for a approx. 400 HP 318 will be a;
650 CFM carb
Edelbrock RPM
360 heads with the favorable 2.02 valves
KB pistons that give a better than 9.0-1 comp ratio
New connecting rods (since there stronger and cheaper than redoing the stock rods)
Headers into a 2-1/2 exhaust
Cam, a min. Of 230 @ .050 duration
Build the 318 since you all ready have the block. Re-spending money on a 360 block is just spending money. The differance between the 318 vs, the 360 is only the cost of pistons.
The power delivery differance is more torque from the 360.
It would have been worth purchasing the 360 over the teen, but, since you have it all ready, just go for it and build it and don't worry about it. Go and enjoy!
Parts for a approx. 400 HP 318 will be a;
650 CFM carb
Edelbrock RPM
360 heads with the favorable 2.02 valves
KB pistons that give a better than 9.0-1 comp ratio
New connecting rods (since there stronger and cheaper than redoing the stock rods)
Headers into a 2-1/2 exhaust
Cam, a min. Of 230 @ .050 duration
Build the 318 since you all ready have the block. Re-spending money on a 360 block is just spending money. The differance between the 318 vs, the 360 is only the cost of pistons.
The power delivery differance is more torque from the 360.
It would have been worth purchasing the 360 over the teen, but, since you have it all ready, just go for it and build it and don't worry about it. Go and enjoy!
65_valiant
Well-Known Member
So in this situation, just how much more would it cost to go the route of a 360? Just how much more torque will the 360 give you over that of the 318? I ask this because I'm in a similar situation, and have always been told the 360 is the way to go when considering rebuilding. I have a 318 punched .030, or maybe .040, with only about 8-10K miles on it from a rebuild more than 10 years ago. I was set on selling this 318 and searching for a 360 and a fresh build.
65 valiant, you can usually find a real good 360 with around 100,000 miles that would be ok to use "as is" for around 300-450 bucks. Example, I bought a 89 Maxi van with 116,000 miles on it for 350 bucks. It ran perfect and I drove it an hour to get it home. I pulled the motor, tranny, radiator and then the scrappers came and picked up the van and paid me money. This 89 motor had the 308 heads and roller cam (great for todays oil). So, if you have a 318 bored already, then it's a great start. If you buy a 360 needing to be built, then that's money too. It's all what your able to find, have, and what your willing to spend. If you have a 318 and a 360 in your garage already, then I would go with the 360 for torque and performance. But if you want gas mileage and be happy with 300 horse, the 318 would work just fine. This is why there are so many arguments on these threads. Each to their own for their own needs.
Well If i am to trade out for the 360 could someone help push me in the right direction the reason I say 400hp is because my friend is building a Chevy s10 with a 350 to 400hp an we are dragging to see what is better but I want more of a hot rod daily as my car. The 318 is cheaper but the guy I bought it from has a 360 as well so should I trade up and pay difference? If you can help with a 318 or 360 build for parts and tips please send me a private message 
thank you
thank you
Is it a "claimed" 350 to have 400 horse, or is it truly 400 horse? I've beat more 11 second 450 horse GM's with mild 318's because they thought that a cam, 600 carb and headers gave them 400 horse. They take it out of town and feel a little pull and say "11's". What they really have is a 250 hp 15 second car... LOL. So, to answer your question would be to determined how serious (and professional) this 350 is going to be. If its at the machine shop and going to be dyno tested 400 horse, then you'll need to build accordingly to beat him. Also, 400 horsepower will require a tranny, torque converter, and rear end with the right gears to match the motor. This is why its not so easy to throw out "400" horsepower number and be done with it...Well If i am to trade out for the 360 could someone help push me in the right direction the reason I say 400hp is because my friend is building a Chevy s10 with a 350 to 400hp an we are dragging to see what is better but I want more of a hot rod daily as my car. The 318 is cheaper but the guy I bought it from has a 360 as well so should I trade up and pay difference? If you can help with a 318 or 360 build for parts and tips please send me a private message
P.S. keeping it on the thread because many reference these for their personal use..... answers are for many, not just the OP
He is getting it professionally built he says but I was figuring I would have to bore rebuild, I have to replace trans and gear box already so was planning on getting what I needed and the rear end I didn't Joe if I had to rebuild or switch... Like I said first time rebuilding a car.
PM's about this topic degrade the board and it's usefulness for others seeking the same idea or answers to the same or similar questions. Which is why there is also a search feature that would have answered this question several times over since this topic is one that all ways crops up and is beat to death for many of us.
The difference in power is a in answerable question for many reasons and it starts with what exactly it is built with and the exact parts that are used and yours are a total unknown.
If you go with the 360, figure in the cost of the 360 plus the 318 you all ready have, add it up and use that figure to see how far in the hole you have dug yourself into without making a positive motion forward other than simply getting the engine size you want.
If your not going to upgrade your stall converter or gears, you have all ready lost the race.
My condolences
The difference in power is a in answerable question for many reasons and it starts with what exactly it is built with and the exact parts that are used and yours are a total unknown.
If you go with the 360, figure in the cost of the 360 plus the 318 you all ready have, add it up and use that figure to see how far in the hole you have dug yourself into without making a positive motion forward other than simply getting the engine size you want.
If your not going to upgrade your stall converter or gears, you have all ready lost the race.
My condolences
Also regulating a 318 to "minor performance only" or "Best used for gas mileage duties only" makes me wonder about the ability (s) of others here. Not that there's an argument for the bigger is better thinking. I have to LOL at the people that say Stroke it since it requires a lot of money.
SO! What is your budget?
SO! What is your budget?
If beating him is your primary goal, go 360!! That will put you 42 cubes a head. A bored .030 over 318 is still a smaller bore than a stock 360. You'll want good heads, and that means you can work with the 360 heads that are there, but mild port/bowl hogging/gasket match is key. A good set of X or J heads work great but are a little more expensive and don't have hardened seats for unleaded fuel. Hardened seats would need to be installed. You might even consider magnum heads, but they aren't a direct bolt on either. But many are using magnum heads. 89-91 308 heads mildly ported are a great choice, maybe one of the best! Next you'll need a cam of at least 230 duration @ .050, or more with around .480 lift. A good dual plane intake like the edlebrock Perfomer RPM. You'll have about 750 cfm's on top that is jetted properly. You'll want at least 8.5 to 1 compression, 9 to 1 better. Stay away from 10 to one because of pump gas. To get this, you may want to go .030 over with KB pistons. That will get ya another 5 cubes. Headers with dual exhaust will get you at about where you want to be with the motor (assuming you went with the 360). Don't go cheap, and I repeat, DON'T go cheap on a converter. You'll need either a 10 inch or 11 inch street converter (2500-2800 stall). This combo will keep everything streetable and perform with what you want. Gears should be at least 3.23, but 3.55-3.91's would serve better. This will depend on your driving habits. Then you'll need a good set of Drag Radial (street legal) tires. All the power in the world does you no good if you can't get it to the ground. You'll be shifting around 5500-6000 rpm's. You'll have about 36-40 degree full advanced ignition timing. You'll keep it cool with a good radiator, because heat robs performance.... If your pocket book allows it, do a 408 stroker and get up around 450 horse.... This is a general outlook at what you'll be doing.... hope this points to the right direction for ya...
Rumblefish, he stated that the same guy that sold him the 318 also has a 360 and he could re-trade it in for a difference. Also, the fact that these builds continue to come up show that the "search feature" isn't achieving much. Also, new people sign on and are excited and post their project. If you read the original post and it's ho-hum, then one click of the button and you never have to see it again. Please wish him luck and not condolences... Lets just kill the enthusiasm, huh?
65_valiant
Well-Known Member
I really couldn't put enough stress on how true this statement is. You're going to want to upgrade to a stronger rearend, not just a new set of gears, assuming of course what you have in the car is stock.
318willrun thanks for the helps that helped me a lot and answered a lot of questions i had. i understood most but not all but hey i am still learning, i dont really have a budget for the engine sense im still in school and my money from work is going into it all i want to do is take my time and build it right, rumblefish i came here to learn and grow in mopar i didnt know there was a search button im sorry.
the car is all stock right now with a 273 still in the bay i was planning on putting a bigger rear on it but not sure what yet still doing research and talking to people who know stuff.
plyduster73
Well-Known Member
Trade up for the 360. I have a 318 and they are nice daily drivers but if you are anything like me you will always think that there could be more motor in the car, if you would have only saved a few more dollars and waited a few more days.
i still have some money and im willing to buy the 360 and resell the 318. i just dont know much about rebuilding engines yet..
Oh, an 8 3/4 rear end will work fine. They are tough enough to easily handle 400 + horsepower in an A-body. The 8 3/4 A-body rear ends are a little bit more hard to find and expensive, but they are out there. If you look at the rear end from the back of the car and there are no bolts around the "pumkin", it's a 8 3/4. If you see bolts holding the plate that covers the rear gears, its not. 8 3/4 rear ends are very plentiful in B-bodies/C-bodies and can be shortened (there is a cost). Look in 65-72 cars. Bolt patterns are 4 inch in A-bodies and 4 1/2 inch on everything else. Also, your tranny is a cable shift (65 and below). '66 and up are linkage shift (this is the way to go). Just keep that in mind when doing a tranny. Lastly on your engine, keep in mind if the 360 is out of a truck, the oil pan/pick-up tube will need to be changed (easy to find, all over ebay cheap). No, a 273, 318 and 340 oil pan wont work. Also, the 360's are externally balanced, meaning either the converter or flexplate needs to be balanced. If you buy a converter, they can sell you one balanced, or B&M sells a balanced flexplate, or have yours balanced (I had it done for 45 bucks). Good Luck!!
You can build a 400 HP stock stroke 318, but it will be expensive. You cannot do it easily without ported heads and they don't come cheap.
However, if you find a good 360 core, it would be much easier to achieve 400 HP and it would do it at a lower RPM than the 318 and that would make it more street friendly.
HAVING the 318 already though may be better. It all depends on your budget.
However, if you find a good 360 core, it would be much easier to achieve 400 HP and it would do it at a lower RPM than the 318 and that would make it more street friendly.
HAVING the 318 already though may be better. It all depends on your budget.
His wallet and statements of limited funds and what he can and can not/will not do/be able to do limits much. I kill nothing. Except his bloated dream of an easy victory which would have ended in a crushin defeat lead by ill advice and extra spending which he can not do.
I did read he could trade the blocks but there was also someone else in a similar boat ???? I was also addressing in Spending the money.
No need to be sorry. I understand your still learning. Even before you mentioned it above in the quote. It is difficult to go through what is and what is not needed and/or prudent in a forum and even more so for a new guy to engines or just LA engines.
The best advice I can give is often ignored 99% of the time. But I'll give it again anyway.
Get a book, actually 3!
How to rebuild my S/B MoPar
How to rebuild my S/B MoPar
The MoPar engines book
Extra books to get would be the;
MoPar chassis manual
Factory service manuals for YOUR CAR
Once you have gone through these books and understand what is contained inside of them, use the knowledge and put it to practice, the. Perhaps you'll understand.
But everybody wants the easy way out and hit the net for instant answers rather than build an actual knowledge base from the engineers that built and raced your car. At least the knowledge contained within the books would be at your finger tips in your garage for you to referance instantly instead of waiting for info from the net which often is conflicted and WRONG!
You wanna do this right, seek the knowledge from the been there and done that!
It's only in the books.
rumblefish i have all the books but my manual for the 64 barracuda.. this could be a stupid question but where could i find the book? and i think i will go with the 360 small block i just have to do so more modding and build a couple engine mounts to put it in. im still reading the books but i appreciate all of the help if its wrong or right at least this forum has active and is willing to help the young generation get involved in restoring cars.
im still reading the books but i appreciate all of the help if its wrong or right at least this forum has active and is willing to help the young generation get involved in restoring cars.
Robj
Well-Known Member
Hey Sbonez! Welcome to the world of restorations. It's great to see the younger guys coming along. My son is 25 now but has been building is '74 B-body for several years. It should be ready for paint in the next couple months. When he was in high school, he and I spent many hours laying underneath it together up to our elbows in one fluid or another. It had a 408 I had put in it before I signed the title over to him for college graduation. It was mostly streetable and soooo much fun (I can attest personally to that) but ended up just being more than he really wanted as his priorities changed. He built the original 318 and even for a heavier B-body he has a really nice quick little hot rod right now but it's no 408 and he's happy with that.
Your build has to fit your wants and needs but also look into the future. Faster quite often equates to more money after the initial build. Things break more with more stress. So if you do build it to the max, you need to use the best parts and spend the money now. If your buddy has the cash and can afford his big build then let him do it and don't be so concerned with having to beat him. It's all good until you're sitting in the garage with a broken driveline that you can't afford to repair because of school.
My son got his degree, is working in his field and now has some extra cash to finally finish the body and paint and build it like he wants which is a really nice streetable 318 likely in the mid 300hp. He also put in a later model overdrive automatic.
You can always build a reliable streetrod now and revisit it in a few years like many guys on this site have done and then build the car of your dreams when you have the money to do it right.
I've helped my son alot but he's also gotten loads of information from guys on forums like this including forbbodiesonly. Read all you can and surf the threads even if they might not pertain to your present situation because sooner or later they will. It will build your knowledge base. Also make sure you bookmark the ones you know you will need to come back to. The search features on most forums don't always reveal relevant information using what you might think might be obvious keyword(s). I find I have to try several different combinations or try to think of that one unique word that will nail it.
Have fun and don't stress it. I just recommend you slow down for a short bit, soul search what you want, what you need, and what you can afford without cutting corners and keep doing research. It's more expensive to change track midway through a build. Look for books on eBay, Amazon and even Barnes and Noble. For that matter just google the titles listed in the prior post and likely you will find them.
And like I always tell my trainees- don't be afraid to ask questions when you're learning. You might get a few smart answers. Not everyone has the same amount of... Tact: noun; adroitness and sensitivity in dealing with others or with difficult issues. synonyms: diplomacy, tactfulness, sensitivity, understanding, thoughtfulness, consideration, delicacy... but you also need to weigh what they have to say as it could be very valuable. They've been around long time and have seen it all.
You will a find a ton of old farts who love seeing their passion for these cars carry on with the younger guys and gals and just want to see you succeed. Good luck! Check out this proud dad and his younger mopar son- taken a year ago before he began on the body.
View attachment cars.jpg
Your build has to fit your wants and needs but also look into the future. Faster quite often equates to more money after the initial build. Things break more with more stress. So if you do build it to the max, you need to use the best parts and spend the money now. If your buddy has the cash and can afford his big build then let him do it and don't be so concerned with having to beat him. It's all good until you're sitting in the garage with a broken driveline that you can't afford to repair because of school.
My son got his degree, is working in his field and now has some extra cash to finally finish the body and paint and build it like he wants which is a really nice streetable 318 likely in the mid 300hp. He also put in a later model overdrive automatic.
You can always build a reliable streetrod now and revisit it in a few years like many guys on this site have done and then build the car of your dreams when you have the money to do it right.
I've helped my son alot but he's also gotten loads of information from guys on forums like this including forbbodiesonly. Read all you can and surf the threads even if they might not pertain to your present situation because sooner or later they will. It will build your knowledge base. Also make sure you bookmark the ones you know you will need to come back to. The search features on most forums don't always reveal relevant information using what you might think might be obvious keyword(s). I find I have to try several different combinations or try to think of that one unique word that will nail it.
Have fun and don't stress it. I just recommend you slow down for a short bit, soul search what you want, what you need, and what you can afford without cutting corners and keep doing research. It's more expensive to change track midway through a build. Look for books on eBay, Amazon and even Barnes and Noble. For that matter just google the titles listed in the prior post and likely you will find them.
And like I always tell my trainees- don't be afraid to ask questions when you're learning. You might get a few smart answers. Not everyone has the same amount of... Tact: noun; adroitness and sensitivity in dealing with others or with difficult issues. synonyms: diplomacy, tactfulness, sensitivity, understanding, thoughtfulness, consideration, delicacy... but you also need to weigh what they have to say as it could be very valuable. They've been around long time and have seen it all.
You will a find a ton of old farts who love seeing their passion for these cars carry on with the younger guys and gals and just want to see you succeed. Good luck! Check out this proud dad and his younger mopar son- taken a year ago before he began on the body.
View attachment cars.jpg
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