Needed: The best of both worlds

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HotLines

HotLines

Realist - Free Thinker
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
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Location
southern Oregon
How could Mopar help me build the best of both worlds on a budget of under five grand?
I need my black 64 Signet which I have owned and driven half of its forty six year old life. In those years I have gone through four engines, including its original 273 which I had in it the first ten days I've owned it to a dual quad 318, then a roller cam 340 for ten years and now a stock 91 - 360. What I need to see is horsepower as well as economy like in other manufactured vehicles such as the 93 to 97 LT1 Camaro where horsepower and gas mileage are relevant to each other which explains where its producers were at in order to give the American people what they wanted. I feel that Chrysler has let us all down not making a HiPo engine for at least 35 years, OK granted they brought us the return of the so called hemi and the 4.7 but only with the help of Mercedes Benz as the 4.7 is
theoretically a version of the 4.5 Mercedes engine of the 80's. My problem is that I want more then just horsepower, I want gas mileage as well and I want this without spending thousands of dollars for an overprice engine which I may have to change some of the best suspension ever to come out on a manufactured vehicle which I believe the torsion bar suspension has to offer. I will not stand for pricing I would have to sell my left nut to buy and very soon I will start selling all my Mopar stuff including the 360 engine in the 64 I just installed. I have lots of 340 parts including 2 - 1970 blocks and one crank, God knows what in pistons, rods, my W2's and a race 727 along with a 518 which when I first went with the roller 340 the 518 wasn't strong enough to use, that was back in the early 90's.

I am not a purist of any kind by a longshot so the engine I will use will make the Mopor purist probably cry and the reason I say this is because I don't want to spend all my hard earned cash on outdated performance or new technology which is priced just to get some company out of debt. I have a number of options which I can take none of them resembles a Mopar yet I love that 64 signet body and torsion bar suspension. For a little history I have raced just about any engine there is and in the 60's I owned Fiberglass trends ' Instant Motion ' Cheetah running a Mopar 440 injected BB which held the national record for so long they dropped the class AA/MSP 168mph in 9.84 seconds

I Thank you for reading this and remember I need my 25 mpg and 300 rwhp and I need it for under 5 thousand dollars, preferably under 3 thousand dollars.
 
I think the key to HP and MPG is EFI. That is how all the manufactures are getting it done.
 
3.7l Ford Vi-VCT drivetrain.

What!?!? He said he wasn't a purist.
 
HotLines said:
I need my 25 mpg and 300 rwhp and I need it for under 5 thousand dollars, preferably under 3 thousand dollars.
Click to expand...

Under 5K, possible if you have connections and the "enginuity"...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Kl9MBr15o"]YouTube - Valiant Slant 6 Dyno 370 rwhp[/ame]
 
Well, I'd say one of two paths:

First: it seems like you have a lot of misc. parts that you won't be needing, sell them and go with the 5.7. 345 Hp and 20+ mpg isn't bad.

If not that then: get a slant six and turbo it. A properly driven turbo'd slant can get 30 + mpg.

But that's just my 2 cents :D
 
I already have the engine and transmission setup for my 64 which I will be using and will not discuss it here for fear that I will be responsible for another persons heart attack and yes I will be either selling all my Mopar stuff of using them as boat anchors. I find that even here on FABO persons haven't a clue to one's position in life and try to offer a lot less then the part is worth judging by my Ed Hamburger W2 heads complete with Harlen Sharp rockers just the way Mopar suggested they be done years back, these heads flow at 270 @ 500 lift and can be ported much more then they actually are. I already have photos here on this forum and was offered a very laughable 1400 for them. The idea of having a Mercedes engine and transmission in my 64 passed through my mind but it wouldn't be the Hemi 5.7 as there are better ones out there for a guy like me. My daily driver for the past few years is a 89 Mercedes 300 coupe, 6 cyl which cruises well over a hundred, is silent had has all the creature features one could ask for even though its 21 years old and has never had a major problem and gets me an average 25mpg. I love cruising the hiways as well as hitting the back roads.

Oh well, I think I am going overboard on this but as I once said I am no purist and will not support anyone or any company which doesn't support me

BlackBomber, I thought about it for a few minutes but that's just a newer throw away engine.
 
A modern drive train is what you seek, plane and simple. Now, what modern drive train can you get and swap in for 5g's?
You need to search a junk yard for a wreck and a bad wreck at that.
 
There ya go Rumblefish you hit the nail on the head, what modern drivetrain can ya swap in for under 5 grand. BTW I raced Islip 1/8th mile in 1961 with a street driven 6:71 blown 301 in a 57 chevy as well as west hampton before long island dragway opened

I am not impressed easily especially by the purists who believe the new hemi is a Chrysler product when in fact...... ah, I won't go there after all even Daimler Benz got sick of working with Chrysler

Buying Chrysler parts are like buying foreign parts, no one has them in stock, they have to be ordered and then they cost twice as much as other American car manufacturers and I've just about had it up to here :cheers: I picked up a very low mileage under a thousand mile corvette LT1 with LT4 F.I. and tremac 6 speed setup from a chevy purist this past week for 1500. it seems the dude wants his 64 el kabong back to stock with the original 283 and 4 speed which he has. I look at things in a simple manner, will it work and will it make me happy. I don't give a rats *** what others think or say and I am by no means ashamed of my decision, I just don't want to play games anymore and I've had this car for 25 or so years and love the body style and promised myself a long time ago I'd never sell it, this car was rust free when I bought it in Rockland county NY and still is here in Oregon.

I understand if you guys excommunicate me from your Mopar club but it is what it is
 
I am not impressed easily especially by the purists who believe the new hemi is a Chrysler product when in fact...... ah, I won't go there after all even Daimler Benz got sick of working with Chrysler
Click to expand...

The current new HEMI design was on the drawing boards long before the Germans came to town. The engine was being raced at events a few years before the merge. I help and talked to Scoot Geffrion (SP) before he passed away @ Richmonds 1/4 mile drage way (In Dimwittie, sp?)

Me and my bud were blessed with talk and pushing the HEMI car around they lot.
 
As far as putting another brand of engine in the car, I don't really go for it myself, but the paraneters you seek may very well be another brand of engine. One has to look at the line up Chrysler has, as in a bone stock set up and see what is offered.

I do beileve the HEMI drive train will deliver, but, the cost may be in the way? IDK? As the TV slots states, the HEMI in the 300 does preety well and I can only imagine that in a lighter car, it should have a much easier time getting a bit more mileage. And then theres the exhaust issue, as any engine will have, but the exhaust issue will cost if the exhaust manifolds do not work. No matter what comes off the head for exhaust, a free flowing one is needed to get more mileage.

The 5.7 is advertised at 16/25 mpg's with a 5spd automatic trans & a 2.65 rear gear ratio. The engine produces 360 HP on 87 octane. You'll need to keep the computer for the automatic trans for the MDS system.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQJha1hi_-I"]YouTube - Chrysler 300 Dance Commercial[/ame]
 
RumbleFish, This won't be the first time that I took the Hooker fenderwell headers for a small block Mopar and used them on a small block Chevy with little work, I did so in a Vega I had some years back and all it took was a 1/2 day to make them work. I been around the block many times.

Does anyone remember Zora Argus Duntov? When he worked for Chrysler in the early 50's he read the specs for the Elephant motor and its resemblance to his 1947 patent of the same configuration.

I've been looking for an engine and trans as well as a chassis setup for quite some time for my Signet where innovation takes the place of " Been there, done that "

I am very familiar with different tools, different ideas as well as being different but never the less I love my Signet and its torsion bar suspension setup for driving the back roads while some others here use a Mustang II suspension on their car all raising flags and preaching all about Mopar and being 100% dohhhhhh!!

I'm not trying to be rude just very open minded as I believe that the torsion bar suspension has got it all over the anything else out there even for today's world. Let me get this right, persons here put down the use of another engine while possible using another manufacturers Wheels - Mustang, Transmissions - 700R4, Suspensions - Alterkation Mustang II and gobs of other parts not associated with Mopar which BTW has taken a big chunk of all our monies in the past while discontinuing many parts we all need.
 
This is number 4 for my Signet, a stock 91 Dodge- 360 hyd.roller cam engine. Just finished up the setup with parts I had, Guys here on FABO helped this ol'man

SP007.jpg
 
HotLines said:
RumbleFish, This won't be the first time that I took the Hooker fenderwell headers for a small block Mopar and used them on a small block Chevy with little work, I did so in a Vega I had some years back and all it took was a 1/2 day to make them work. I been around the block many times.

Does anyone remember Zora Argus Duntov? When he worked for Chrysler in the early 50's he read the specs for the Elephant motor and its resemblance to his 1947 patent of the same configuration.
Click to expand...

I've seen a few headers where they weren't ment to be on, worked on. I also remember Zora. I don't know a whole lot about the man, but he was in the mix on alot of things. I'm glad he came here to America to do what he loves and was able to shine at. Lucky us.

I just mentioned the HEMI (Above) as a possible power plant that MoPar guys are making swaps into the older bodies. Since this has been done before, this makes it easier to do and research on. Perhaps even a FABO'er here has done it?

I'm not to sure at all of it's weight, sizes and possible cave eats of this swap.
Same with any other new modern engine/trans. Like the LS1 or Ford mod motor, though that looks huge.

Have you made a short list of what you want? Or was is $$$ possible?
 
RumbleFish, its not necessarily the dollars as much as the technology and the way I look at things but Mopar hasn't really given us much in the past 30 ot years and their hold on patents almost crumbles my mind. I've had every small block ever made by Chrysler in my Signet throughout the years I've owned it and at this moment in time, I need a change. As I've said before I love my original black Signet from its sleek body to its torsion bar suspension and right down to the 1962 BB Dynamic reverse manual valve body w/ free wheeling first gear with its push button, but I am in need of gas mileage so it is able to travel many miles and I really don't want to spend a mini fortune bringing it up to par, so to speak.

I grew up in Long Beach NY and am a free hand pinstriper who welcomes change as long as its done by hand with paint, I am not into stickers and vinyl crap. I will drive back there in my Signet as I built it in NY. To make a long story short I find alot of what I read here to be very one sided and similar to politics and not as open minded as I would like it, but that's just the way it is and I accept it. Understand where I am coming from as I understand where others do as well. It seems to me that the parts I have such as my W2 heads etc are wanted here at prices where I would never sell them because many here have no perceived values of what things actually cost or are worth. In the past I never built anything worrying about its cost and had 9 grand in my 340 setup. Right now at 66 I just wanna have fun............

My Signet also has a shaker hood or shaker hood scoop on its carburetor in a custom box which I may not be using due to the F.I. and fresh air box I will be using. even so, what do you think I can get for this custom setup that fits an early A-body on this site.


Respectfully, Joey Madden
http://inflite.tripod.com
 
Shaker on a 64? Can you post pics of your car? Sounds like a lot of great work has gone into your Signet.
 
So John, what power plant is in your thoughts.

OH, Long Beach is looking preety good these days. Cleaned up well.
 
ok so why are you posting here again, be a hater,

i love my hemi Grand Cherokee, my wife loves her 2010 Liberty with skyroof, I love my Dodge pick ups with either hemis or Cummins, I think the Germans bankrupt Chrysler, and did i say have worked for Chrysler for a helluva long time....plenty of things i dont like, but yet its hard not to love a an srt8 Charger in a hairpin turn coming down from Chimney Rock......them big Nittos screaming for their lives....

you want to put a chevy in you Chrysler product, do it go tell the chevy guys about it, we dont care here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dodge29

ps, i too have raced just about anything, for some reason stuck to stock car racing, i enjoyed it more than any other form of racing, in my late teens i stood a Cuda on its rear bumper and i race stock cars when i had to travel 500 miles to find another Dodge engine in a stock car.....i remember when we built everything from scratch, cause we either couldnt afford the high dollar pieces if they existed....most of time they didnt exist, hell was involve in designing and testing several pieces, many take for granted now....
 
Dodge29, there's always one in the crowd who feels this is a Chrysler vs Chevy thing but actually I too don't give a flying ---- of whatever anyone thinks. I'm happy that you have all these newer vehicles and that you've worked for Chrysler and now that's been settled try and remember that this is only a vehicle which I have owned for 25 years and the country I live in still recognizes me and I am proud of it.

As far as stock car racing, remember PeeWee Griffin? he was a racer and owner whose car 72 won Daytona 500 back in 80 or 81 with Buddy Baker driving. I used to pinstripe all his vehicles street and race, he once gave me a Rodak motor for one of my vehicles at the time. Think he got X'ed from Nascar along with others over God know what in the mid 80's.

And no Dodge29 I am not a hater just an American exercising my rights, how bout you?
 
Commando66, For some reason I never get to photo my Signet together but this should give you an idea of how I accomplished this.

Signet013.jpg

Signet014.jpg

march003.jpg
 
I am sorry I am late to this thread... this is interesting! One reason it's interesting to me is that 25mpg is a goal I have set for my '66 Valiant. I recently installed a fresh, stock 318 with roller cam/302 heads (shaved to bump the compression a bit). Planning on the new 5 spd from either Mcleod or Passon once they are available. Yeah, I know I ain't pushing 300 at the wheels, but by the time I get done tuning it I think it will be a lot of fun, especially with the 5 spd. I want to do it with the carb, you may say it isn't possible, but I got 19mpg out of a 340 in an e body with an automatic, I filled it up and did the math at least a dozen times because I couldn't believe it myself.
 
Anyone waiving the BS flag yet? Here is a couple details I left out, that 340 was .030 over and using a 484 lift mopar cam, with a 600cfm carter AFB. Yes, it was VERY well balanced, align bored etc. My friend Ron still has that motor, and he wont sell it, not even to me or it would be in my Valiant right now. :)
 
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