Blind Squirrel
Well-Known Member
Also, everyone should know by now that common sense does not win in a court of law anymore. It sucks horribly that this is what we - including those that disagree - have become.
Neighbor kid got bit...
- Thread starter inkjunkie
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clhyer
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Well, I am no attorney - but I have seen actors portray them on TV...
I think Inkjunkie would be SOL if this ended up in court and should be damn happy the kid did not loose an arm or get seriously injured.
First, I do not think you can hold a 10 year old kid to the same standards as an adult when it comes to *No Trespassing* signs.
Second, the concept of Attractive Nuisance could be applied here. What kid does not like dogs if they have dogs at home?
Third, the fence is not a privacy fence or the kid could not have stuck his hands through; therefore you have not done all you could to protect others from your dogs.
Fourth, you may know that you should not attempt to pet a strange dog on the head. Do most 10 year old*s know this?
About 30 years ago we had new neighbors move next door. He was also somewhat anti-social. One day he told a group of us that he was going to put up a chain link fence and start raising pit bulls. My wife (who was a deputy sheriff at the time) did not even blink - she looked at him and said if any of those dogs even so much as growled at her son she would shoot it. He never did start raising or even get a pit bull!
C
I think Inkjunkie would be SOL if this ended up in court and should be damn happy the kid did not loose an arm or get seriously injured.
First, I do not think you can hold a 10 year old kid to the same standards as an adult when it comes to *No Trespassing* signs.
Second, the concept of Attractive Nuisance could be applied here. What kid does not like dogs if they have dogs at home?
Third, the fence is not a privacy fence or the kid could not have stuck his hands through; therefore you have not done all you could to protect others from your dogs.
Fourth, you may know that you should not attempt to pet a strange dog on the head. Do most 10 year old*s know this?
About 30 years ago we had new neighbors move next door. He was also somewhat anti-social. One day he told a group of us that he was going to put up a chain link fence and start raising pit bulls. My wife (who was a deputy sheriff at the time) did not even blink - she looked at him and said if any of those dogs even so much as growled at her son she would shoot it. He never did start raising or even get a pit bull!
C
I know laws vary a lot from state to state. might be like "women" laws, they are favored toward the female every time. maybe any dog that bits, even if on his own property and provoked, is at fault and liable!????
I agree, glad the kid wasn't hurt, yes he was at fault IMO , glad he learned something, and IF the parents could have sued and won, glad they didn't and hopefuly could NOT have won!!!! sounds like locical neighbors.
again, another reason I don't want any reasonably close neighbors neighbors. too many idiots in this world.
people can say, " its just a dog". I tell them that dog means more to me, than they will ever know to ME. cross me about something like that, and they will find out what CRAZY really is...........
I agree, glad the kid wasn't hurt, yes he was at fault IMO , glad he learned something, and IF the parents could have sued and won, glad they didn't and hopefuly could NOT have won!!!! sounds like locical neighbors.
again, another reason I don't want any reasonably close neighbors neighbors. too many idiots in this world.
people can say, " its just a dog". I tell them that dog means more to me, than they will ever know to ME. cross me about something like that, and they will find out what CRAZY really is...........
clhyer
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And what will the response be if a party or friends visit next door and a toddler gets seriously injured?
Whose side do you think the neighbor will take now? Do you think the neighbor will make it known the dog has bitten before?
C
Whose side do you think the neighbor will take now? Do you think the neighbor will make it known the dog has bitten before?
C
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
so this was timely
I was bringing my 2 year old daughter next door to my inlaws
she was halfway asleep, so I carried her in my arms
as I was walking in (going in through the garage) the neighbors dog came darting across the yard and bit the back of my leg
(now, when I say "dog", I m "rat" and when I say "bit" I mean "nipped")
there is no fence, chainlink, electronic, or otherwise, and the little yapper was not leashed
I was in a pretty good mood so I just shuck it off, but if the dog was a few pounds heavier, or if I would have been having a rotten day, there would have been a good chance I would have shot it
what are you guy's thoughts on that?
I was bringing my 2 year old daughter next door to my inlaws
she was halfway asleep, so I carried her in my arms
as I was walking in (going in through the garage) the neighbors dog came darting across the yard and bit the back of my leg
(now, when I say "dog", I m "rat" and when I say "bit" I mean "nipped")
there is no fence, chainlink, electronic, or otherwise, and the little yapper was not leashed
I was in a pretty good mood so I just shuck it off, but if the dog was a few pounds heavier, or if I would have been having a rotten day, there would have been a good chance I would have shot it
what are you guy's thoughts on that?
Actually, no one here is right or wrong. The case would have to go before a judge to have that decided. The judge would make that ultimate decision based on how he or she perceived the law. And that IS correct.
Oldschoolcuda
Early-A Body Nerd
My thoughts are thank god you had your daughter n your arms.
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
I'm not sure if that little furball could have done any damage to her, but I AM sure glad I didn't get to find out
72Valiant4Door
Trouble Maker
If you are former usps, i think you know how much danger biting dogs can cause a home owner, and that "private property" doesn't mean sovereignty anymore.
Glad no one was seriously harmed, I hope you havent created the dog's insecurity and over aggressiveness.
Good luck.
Glad no one was seriously harmed, I hope you havent created the dog's insecurity and over aggressiveness.
Good luck.
I had a farmer friend that had a border collie cross cow dog. she stayed around his farmer type yard. if anyone showed up there and the farmer was home, the dog never said BOO. Now, if someone showed up and no one home, and went to the farmer's back door........ the "visitor" would be there at that door for how many hours??? till someone can home!!!! pretty darn funny to me, but i'm a little worped!!??? ( mean little dog)...
country people look at life usually a little differently than city/urban folks. we have no desire to see anyone ( especially a child).... harmed by a dog or anything else, but, we know IF we get out of our trunk at someone's place, there is a GOOD chance there could be a dog that will take your a** off! there for a purpose, and keeping thieves away is part of it!!!! if I were to go to any country home with a child, the kid would not get out of the truck till I knew it safe!
people are nuts! years back I loaned a co worked my chainsaw, he was able to cut his leg with it. ( due to him being an ignorant duma**).... he told me HE should sue me. !!!!! I told him the outcome would be pretty simple, he would not live. period. sorry.
country people look at life usually a little differently than city/urban folks. we have no desire to see anyone ( especially a child).... harmed by a dog or anything else, but, we know IF we get out of our trunk at someone's place, there is a GOOD chance there could be a dog that will take your a** off! there for a purpose, and keeping thieves away is part of it!!!! if I were to go to any country home with a child, the kid would not get out of the truck till I knew it safe!
people are nuts! years back I loaned a co worked my chainsaw, he was able to cut his leg with it. ( due to him being an ignorant duma**).... he told me HE should sue me. !!!!! I told him the outcome would be pretty simple, he would not live. period. sorry.
Similar thing happened to my brother in law, and his dog when he was living in Texas. Dog bit a kid that reached through the fence, having been warned not to. Animal control came and picked the dog up. Just happened one of his clients was a para-legal for a very reputable attorney in Houston. Before the day was over, the attorney showed up to check on the well being of her client (the dog). Next day, the dog was back home.
"I had a farmer friend that had a border collie cross cow dog. she stayed around his farmer type yard. if anyone showed up there and the farmer was home, the dog never said BOO. Now, if someone showed up and no one home, and went to the farmer's back door........ the "visitor" would be there at that door for how many hours??? till someone can home!!!! pretty darn funny to me, but i'm a little worped!!??? ( mean little dog).."
Had a blue heeler like that when I lived in the country. If I was home, he was everybody's best friend. If I wasn't home, he would meet you in the driveway, and not let you out.
Had a blue heeler like that when I lived in the country. If I was home, he was everybody's best friend. If I wasn't home, he would meet you in the driveway, and not let you out.
MileHighDart
Well-Known Member
Just wanted to throw out a quick apology to Ink and Rusty. Didn't mean to piss anyone off last night.
We all have **** we have to deal with in this life and some of my **** had me in a pretty bad mood yesterday, and I let it out here. Sorry about that.
I stand by my original statement on this subject, but I think I'll stick to talking a-bodies for a while. Some of this other stuff just gets me too worked up.
Have a good evening all.
We all have **** we have to deal with in this life and some of my **** had me in a pretty bad mood yesterday, and I let it out here. Sorry about that.
I stand by my original statement on this subject, but I think I'll stick to talking a-bodies for a while. Some of this other stuff just gets me too worked up.
Have a good evening all.
No worries dude. Things are also different in every location too so we're all probably wrong. LOL
People were fairly warned about the consequences....glad no serious injuries of course, but to each his own. Ain't hating either side.
chryslerfat
Well-Known Member
Welcome to Merika where the stupid and criminals have all the rights.
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
Of course they do...the have the most representatives
Yeah, it's a big problem. Common sense has just gone by the wayside.
72Valiant4Door
Trouble Maker
It is convenient self reassurance to say it is just the kids fault but when there is truly no longer private property... we now live in an age where we must have more responsibility than ever.
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megajoltman
Time to NUT UP or SHUT UP
Kids lucky Doug didn't bite him, Doug bites can be nasty....
inkjunkie
Well-Known Member
Some of you folks,would never survive life in Stevens County Washington....to the member that thinks I am not being honest when I say I don't care what others think....you Siron should not try to "play" head doctor...apparently you wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and bit you in the arse. Have been a loner my entire life. Reason being is I don't get along with people. Hell...the reason I was forced into retirement....hazard to self and others...kinda says something. I have no friends...minus my wife and 2 guys in AZ for a reason...my not caring what others think ALWAYS results in arguements...arguments cause stress...stress triggers a manic episode...simple enough...
The reason I put this "out here"....I find humor, for some reason, in folks saying what they do. Folks saying that their opinion is the end all truth... really...you folks know,the laws in EVERY state? State of Washington has some interesting laws. Don't remember the outcome but a while ago someone shot a car thief as they were running away...I think the guy was cleared of any wrong doing...
To the clown that said he wouldn't trust my neighbor because he shot someone's dog...what a moronic statement. This dog chased his sister in law for over a mile, aggressively biting at the vehicle. Followed her right on to HER PROPERTY. What was he supposed to do? Dial 911? Response time out here is an hour. Hell, for that matter I asked a Stevens County Sheriffs deputy about what to do in the event I was wor5on our roads and had a dog act aggressively...Sheriff asked me if I carry a firearm...said shoot it. Would trust my neighbor more than you....
What is really comical...kids parents WOULD never pursue legal action so talking about it is a moot point...even better...Darcy, the kids Mom...is a disabled cop...
Some of you folks make laugh.....and make me truly grateful that I don't have to deal with the public anymore....
The reason I put this "out here"....I find humor, for some reason, in folks saying what they do. Folks saying that their opinion is the end all truth... really...you folks know,the laws in EVERY state? State of Washington has some interesting laws. Don't remember the outcome but a while ago someone shot a car thief as they were running away...I think the guy was cleared of any wrong doing...
To the clown that said he wouldn't trust my neighbor because he shot someone's dog...what a moronic statement. This dog chased his sister in law for over a mile, aggressively biting at the vehicle. Followed her right on to HER PROPERTY. What was he supposed to do? Dial 911? Response time out here is an hour. Hell, for that matter I asked a Stevens County Sheriffs deputy about what to do in the event I was wor5on our roads and had a dog act aggressively...Sheriff asked me if I carry a firearm...said shoot it. Would trust my neighbor more than you....
What is really comical...kids parents WOULD never pursue legal action so talking about it is a moot point...even better...Darcy, the kids Mom...is a disabled cop...
Some of you folks make laugh.....and make me truly grateful that I don't have to deal with the public anymore....
inkjunkie
Well-Known Member
Last I checked...in this state even process servers are prohibited from entering property once posted it is private.....would love to hear your reasoning...(just kidding).....for what you say...you obviously are one for ducking responsibility for your own actions...
That logic is fine till the dog "gets out". Case in point my neighbor has three pit bulls that are for ever getting out and they are mean. Our neighbors daughter went jogging and the dogs were out. they jumped her, bit her several times, took a few stitches at the walk in clinic. You know those dogs disappeared? I wonder what could have happened to them? If I were your neighbor, heaven help you if they ever got out!
inkjunkie
Well-Known Member
RCW 9A.52.010: Definitions.
which reads....
*** CHANGE IN 2016 *** (SEE 2375-S2.SL) ***
The following definitions apply in this chapter:
(1) "Access" means to approach, instruct, communicate with, store data in, retrieve data from, or otherwise make use of any resources of a computer, directly or by electronic means.
(2) "Computer program" means an ordered set of data representing coded instructions or statements that when executed by a computer cause the computer to process data.
(3) "Data" means a representation of information, knowledge, facts, concepts, or instructions that are being prepared or have been prepared in a formalized manner and are intended for use in a computer.
(4) "Enter." The word "enter" when constituting an element or part of a crime, shall include the entrance of the person, or the insertion of any part of his or her body, or any instrument or weapon held in his or her hand and used or intended to be used to threaten or intimidate a person or to detach or remove property;
(5) "Enters or remains unlawfully." A person "enters or remains unlawfully" in or upon premises when he or she is not then licensed, invited, or otherwise privileged to so enter or remain.
A license or privilege to enter or remain in a building which is only partly open to the public is not a license or privilege to enter or remain in that part of a building which is not open to the public. A person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to him or her by the owner of the land or some other authorized person, or unless notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner. Land that is used for commercial aquaculture or for growing an agricultural crop or crops, other than timber, is not unimproved and apparently unused land if a crop or any other sign of cultivation is clearly visible or if notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner. Similarly, a field fenced in any manner is not unimproved and apparently unused land. A license or privilege to enter or remain on improved and apparently used land that is open to the public at particular times, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner to exclude intruders, is not a license or privilege to enter or remain on the land at other times if notice of prohibited times of entry is posted in a conspicuous manner.
(6) "Premises" includes any building, dwelling, structure used for commercial aquaculture, or any real property.
Read (5)....this is what I feel applies.....
and RCW 16.08.040: Dog bites—Liability. which reads....
Dog bites—Liability
(1) The owner of any dog which shall bite any person while such person is in or on a public place or lawfully in or on a private place including the property of the owner of such dog, shall be liable for such damages as may be suffered by the person bitten, regardless of the former viciousness of such dog or the owner's knowledge of such viciousness.
(2) This section does not apply to the lawful application of a police dog, as defined in RCW 4.24.410.
So the kid entered unlawfully by sticking his hand thru the fence....which is on my property....clears up the trespassing issue...and as far as being liable for damages...well...he was unlawfully on my property....I do have no trespassing signs posted...I am not liable for damages....
to the member who mentioned his attorney friend...I hear Burger King is hiring....
Like I mentioned earlier....Washington State has some interesting laws.....
Now as far as feeling morally responsible......nope....could not care less.....
which reads....
*** CHANGE IN 2016 *** (SEE 2375-S2.SL) ***
The following definitions apply in this chapter:
(1) "Access" means to approach, instruct, communicate with, store data in, retrieve data from, or otherwise make use of any resources of a computer, directly or by electronic means.
(2) "Computer program" means an ordered set of data representing coded instructions or statements that when executed by a computer cause the computer to process data.
(3) "Data" means a representation of information, knowledge, facts, concepts, or instructions that are being prepared or have been prepared in a formalized manner and are intended for use in a computer.
(4) "Enter." The word "enter" when constituting an element or part of a crime, shall include the entrance of the person, or the insertion of any part of his or her body, or any instrument or weapon held in his or her hand and used or intended to be used to threaten or intimidate a person or to detach or remove property;
(5) "Enters or remains unlawfully." A person "enters or remains unlawfully" in or upon premises when he or she is not then licensed, invited, or otherwise privileged to so enter or remain.
A license or privilege to enter or remain in a building which is only partly open to the public is not a license or privilege to enter or remain in that part of a building which is not open to the public. A person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to him or her by the owner of the land or some other authorized person, or unless notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner. Land that is used for commercial aquaculture or for growing an agricultural crop or crops, other than timber, is not unimproved and apparently unused land if a crop or any other sign of cultivation is clearly visible or if notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner. Similarly, a field fenced in any manner is not unimproved and apparently unused land. A license or privilege to enter or remain on improved and apparently used land that is open to the public at particular times, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner to exclude intruders, is not a license or privilege to enter or remain on the land at other times if notice of prohibited times of entry is posted in a conspicuous manner.
(6) "Premises" includes any building, dwelling, structure used for commercial aquaculture, or any real property.
Read (5)....this is what I feel applies.....
and RCW 16.08.040: Dog bites—Liability. which reads....
Dog bites—Liability
(1) The owner of any dog which shall bite any person while such person is in or on a public place or lawfully in or on a private place including the property of the owner of such dog, shall be liable for such damages as may be suffered by the person bitten, regardless of the former viciousness of such dog or the owner's knowledge of such viciousness.
(2) This section does not apply to the lawful application of a police dog, as defined in RCW 4.24.410.
So the kid entered unlawfully by sticking his hand thru the fence....which is on my property....clears up the trespassing issue...and as far as being liable for damages...well...he was unlawfully on my property....I do have no trespassing signs posted...I am not liable for damages....
to the member who mentioned his attorney friend...I hear Burger King is hiring....
Like I mentioned earlier....Washington State has some interesting laws.....
Now as far as feeling morally responsible......nope....could not care less.....
inkjunkie
Well-Known Member
Hmm...tit for tat....that is something that very well may happen....but that is a gate that swings both ways....and considering that my neighbors LIKE my dogs.....
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