"New" Drums = Disks?

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Jarvis

Jarvis

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I've seen adds for american muscle brakes, which says its "new" drum brakes are as good as disk brakes. Anyone try them or know if their claim is accurate? They are litterally about half the price of doing a drum/disk conversion, but I wanted to hear it from someone who tried it first
 
im planning on trying them myself,i like my free small bolt ralleys i have,and i can use my disc brakes on another car sometime.Ive never had a problem with drum brakes myself,but then again,ive never had any mopars with disc brakes,except my 86 truck,even my 72 stepside had drums,and it stops just fine to me.
 
Ive never seen the ad. IMHO, drums can be made to stop nearly as well as disk brakes IF set up properly. Drums take some knowledge to set up correctly. Fade will always be an issue. However, new drums/materials will be MUCH better than 40+yr. old OEM. for a limited use street car, drums are OK. For a car with more use, or drivin with modern traffic (commuting). disks are preferable.

Drums will always need adjustments for wear, disks will not. Disks will resist fading more than drums. drums if out of adjustment may PULL to either side, disks rarely have this issue.
 
I find that really hard to believe but I have not seen their product. I don't see how anything could beat the clamping power of a caliper to rotor.
 
The main advantage of disc brakes is a straight line stop. Disc brakes are self cleaning to a degree also. The dust goes on the wheels rather than build up in the linnings. There is more braking surface in a drum so improved linning material could only help. Drum brake is still used in applications like freight elevators. Their shoes are around the outside of the drum though so the self cleaning is present there too.
 
there was a guy drilling vent holes in drums to get the gases out, said it made them stop better.
 
another cool thing about drums is they dont always tuch the drum. so they dont get as hot as quick and are one less thing that slows down the car but discs generly beat drums by a lot is stoping speed like in daily driveing
 
$150 for a set of shoes, wheel cylinders and a spring kit. What a deal :angry7:

I bought tru-torque wheel cylinders for $4.50 each, the spring kits for $11. GOOD shoes....$35. That's ~$65. Front or rear, about the same cost.

Swap to disks up front. Used 73+ LBP from a dart: do-able for less than $250, as long as you don't get gouged for the parts.

OK..so the kit has ceramic lining. It will be improved over stock shoes. If the car MUST keep the drums for originality, its probably more show than go.
Therefore, use reg. drum brakes.

IMHO a waste of money.......
 
Here is what I did to my 67 cuda. Yes it's GM calipers but I'm not going to tell anyone. LOL

http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/dodge_plymouth_discbrake_conversions.html

I didn't have to change spindles... just had to remove the drum brake hardware and get hoses that go to the stainless steel brake line. I went the extra buck and got the cross drilled rotors. I love the braking power I have now and it wasn't a PITA to install. The billet aluminum hub is to shiny to cover up so I don't use the center cap on my Weld wheels. I changed out the heavy steel master cylinder to the aluminum one not long after I installed the discs. That made it stop even better. My line lock works like a champ now! The drum brakes would not hold the car with the line lock no matter how hard I bumped them up. I know this more than likely has anything with the topic but just showing that you can have disc brakes without spending $900+ on aftermarket disc system.

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I looked at their site and lists for 62-65 A Body. Weren't all of those 9" brakes. I don't care what you make the shoes out of there is no way those dinky non-finned drums will even come close to matching even the oem disk set up. On big cars/trucks which these ceramic shoes seem to be geared for I could see it being maybe worthwhile because you are talking 10 or 11x2-1/2" shoes with finned drums. Still a big compromise in my opinion. And if $150.00 only gets you the brake hardware,cylinders and shoes that is kind of steep considering a drum brake job costs around $20.00 for semi-met shoes, hardware maybe 20.00 for both sides and cylinders can be bought for like $6.00 each. That's more than double a stock brake job, if it shaved 30 feet off your stopping distance it might be worth it.

I also got a set of those ceramic NAPA lifetime guarantee premium pads for my disks and they make the car sound like a mail truck. Squeak, Sqeak, Squeak.......
 
goldduster360 said:
I looked at their site and lists for 62-65 A Body. Weren't all of those 9" brakes. I don't care what you make the shoes out of there is no way those dinky non-finned drums will even come close to matching even the oem disk set up. On big cars/trucks which these ceramic shoes seem to be geared for I could see it being maybe worthwhile because you are talking 10 or 11x2-1/2" shoes with finned drums. Still a big compromise in my opinion. And if $150.00 only gets you the brake hardware,cylinders and shoes that is kind of steep considering a drum brake job costs around $20.00 for semi-met shoes, hardware maybe 20.00 for both sides and cylinders can be bought for like $6.00 each. That's more than double a stock brake job, if it shaved 30 feet off your stopping distance it might be worth it.

I also got a set of those ceramic NAPA lifetime guarantee premium pads for my disks and they make the car sound like a mail truck. Squeak, Sqeak, Squeak.......
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I really don't see how they can say the shoes work as well as pads. That's false advertising isn't it?
 
I don't know if it's false advertising but it would probably be a nice upgrade for cars with heavy duty drums in the rear. 10" or 11" rear brakes on a F/disk/R/drum contribute their fair share to stopping the car. Why not put them in the rear? Brake drums up front on a driver just don't make sense.

Thinking back to my Bonneville restoration days, that would be a nice upgrade for those big finned/exposed 8 lug aluminum drums since replacing them with disks would seriously alter the look of the vehicle.
 
I tend favor drums. On both of my cars, the drum stop excellent. The Dart Lite has new wheel cylinders on all 4 corners, plus front hoses, and new master cylinder. The pedal feel is excellent, and stops hard. I am sure if I really worked them fade would come into play, but a reasonable driving style, they are more confident, then my disc equipped Ram. I believe that most of the negativity around drums come from people slapping on shoes and calling it good. Most never look to master cylinder, and replacing the functional, but soft cylinder on the Dart increase pedal pressure immensely. Adjustment is critical.
 
goldduster360 said:
I don't know if it's false advertising but it would probably be a nice upgrade for cars with heavy duty drums in the rear. 10" or 11" rear brakes on a F/disk/R/drum contribute their fair share to stopping the car. Why not put them in the rear? Brake drums up front on a driver just don't make sense.

Thinking back to my Bonneville restoration days, that would be a nice upgrade for those big finned/exposed 8 lug aluminum drums since replacing them with disks would seriously alter the look of the vehicle.
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That's true ... I haven't looked at it like that. The first thing that pops in my mind is the drums are for the front because the "disc" word.

Backtobasics said:
I tend favor drums. On both of my cars, the drum stop excellent. The Dart Lite has new wheel cylinders on all 4 corners, plus front hoses, and new master cylinder. The pedal feel is excellent, and stops hard. I am sure if I really worked them fade would come into play, but a reasonable driving style, they are more confident, then my disc equipped Ram. I believe that most of the negativity around drums come from people slapping on shoes and calling it good. Most never look to master cylinder, and replacing the functional, but soft cylinder on the Dart increase pedal pressure immensely. Adjustment is critical.
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The only real problem I had with drums is after they get hot they don't stop good. I kept them adjusted religiously and never had that pull to the left or right. The people that don't work on their own vehicles however that's a different story. Like the little old lady that has a circular drive way and she never backs up. Therefore the drum brakes never adjust properly and she has to take it in "My brakes don't work like they used too." This has actually happened.

Adjustment is very important on drum brakes. I used to work in a tire/automotive shop and did a bunch of brake jobs. The worse one I ever had was a Saab. :angry7:
 
mullinax95 said:
The only real problem I had with drums is after they get hot they don't stop good. I kept them adjusted religiously and never had that pull to the left or right. The people that don't work on their own vehicles however that's a different story. Like the little old lady that has a circular drive way and she never backs up. Therefore the drum brakes never adjust properly and she has to take it in "My brakes don't work like they used too." This has actually happened.
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I agree, but I have yet to have fade on mine. It may be driving style, but even in stop and go traffic, they stay firm. I rank myself as a defensive drive, and also an eco driver, so I minimize brake use, minimze RPM but keep it moving, use the space between me and car in front, etc.

If I had a disc kit around, I would use it. But for now, the drums do the job very well, and then I don't have to have different pattern wheels.
 
Backtobasics said:
I agree, but I have yet to have fade on mine. It may be driving style, but even in stop and go traffic, they stay firm. I rank myself as a defensive drive, and also an eco driver, so I minimize brake use, minimze RPM but keep it moving, use the space between me and car in front, etc.

If I had a disc kit around, I would use it. But for now, the drums do the job very well, and then I don't have to have different pattern wheels.
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Dang! Sounds like you drive like grandpa does!:glasses9:

Just kidding ya!

I had a 68 Charger with a built big block with drum brakes up front. The only thing in my favor was they where power brakes. That car would fly but when it came time to slow that bad boy down I had to allow enough distance. That car needed disc brakes really bad. I've actually had all four tires off the ground in that car... I found out right there and then that brakes don't work unless the tires are on the payment. I was going around a curve on a back road flying... been around that curve a thousand times... hit some sand on the outside of the curve and she went around on me... crossed the road (in the air) ... went down in the ditch ..came out of the ditch and landed back on the road going the other direction. Didn't even put a scratch on the car! :-D
 
mullinax95 said:
Dang! Sounds like you drive like grandpa does!:glasses9:

Just kidding ya!

I had a 68 Charger with a built big block with drum brakes up front. The only thing in my favor was they where power brakes. That car would fly but when it came time to slow that bad boy down I had to allow enough distance. That car needed disc brakes really bad. I've actually had all four tires off the ground in that car... I found out right there and then that brakes don't work unless the tires are on the payment. I was going around a curve on a back road flying... been around that curve a thousand times... hit some sand on the outside of the curve and she went around on me... crossed the road (in the air) ... went down in the ditch ..came out of the ditch and landed back on the road going the other direction. Didn't even put a scratch on the car! :-D
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Sounds like any kind of driving would be grampa compared to your antics.
Not that I didn't have my antics in my younger days. I once got shot at, broke out my back window when I was "racing on the street" We got off, he went to jail, and had to replace the window. Hot damn that window got expensive! :-D
 
Here is a link that was emailed to me by rockauto, they have 9" drums on clearance along with a bunch of other A body stuff. Check on the freight when making comparisons to your local supply houses, I scored some stuff including freight about 20% cheaper than even Advance Auto could do last summer.
http://www.rockauto.com/RSS/vehiclefeeds.php?carcode=1232020&m=wc&l=en&html=true

Just be careful when you order a bunch of stuff to save on freight,sometimes they ship frorm different warehouses and you will get charged for freight per line item depending on where it ships from. Still can be a deal if you do your homework. Make sure you what you order fits too, freight back is a killer. I know it's sometimes hard to order the right part the first with a Mopar, guess that keeps it interesting.
 
Backtobasics said:
Sounds like any kind of driving would be grampa compared to your antics.
Not that I didn't have my antics in my younger days. I once got shot at, broke out my back window when I was "racing on the street" We got off, he went to jail, and had to replace the window. Hot damn that window got expensive! :-D
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I was 16 when that happened. I tell everyone that is fixing to buy their son a car that don't buy a fast one. If that car would have stated rolling instead of sliding I would have been gone.
 
Someone had replaced the front brake shoes with ones that had 2 smaller pads on the front shoe and 3 smaller pads on the rear shoe on the front brakes. I ask around about them and heard they were suppose to be as good as disc brakes. They were better than standard brakes but not as good as disc. In my opinion.
 
Brakes are all about surface area, and drums can work just as well as disks brakes if properly adjusted. Manufacturers went to disk brakes because they're truly self adjusting, contain fewer moving parts, and are easy to produce.

Because the drum is enclosed and a rather large chunk of metal it retains heat, which is the biggest problem with drums. After awhile all that stored up heat leads to brake fade and poor stopping performance. A disk on the other hand, is completely exposed to air and can be vented etc, so it exchanges heat much better. Also, if a drum gets wet inside you lose all your braking ability, and again since the drum is enclosed it takes longer to get the water out and the surface dry than it does a disk brake, which doesn't hold the water (which is why all the 4x4 guys go to disks, hard to keep your brakes clean and dry off-road).

From a stopping standpoint, the drum has just as much stopping power. But the disk brake will win on maintenance, simplicity, and real world use, especially if you don't stay on top of the adjustment needed on the drums. For a single stopping test, you'll see pretty even results, especially with new drums of a more modern material. But since the disk is more thermally efficient (all brakes do is convert mechanical energy to heat), in repeated or heavy use it'll come out on top.
 
went from drums on all four corners of my 67 barracuda to drums in the back and a wilwood disk kit up front car stops like a dream now, i cant tell you how many times i was in hairy situations with the drums the confidince you gain alone is worth getting the disks up front
 
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