New engine wouldn't start

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RDJ

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408 SB. New engine I finally got it all together, and went to start it for the first time. Definitely have fuel, and I must have spark since it backfired and flames were coming from the carb. It almost starts, but won't. It seems like a timing issue.

I put it at TDC by feeling the air coming out of the spark plug hole. The rotor is pointing toward the front of the engine. Checked and rechecked the plug wire order. I lined up the distributor star (is this the reluctor?) on the dist shaft with the dist pickup and the rotor lined up with a point on the dist cap and used that for my #1 plug. I advanced it appoximately 1/8" by turning the dist counterclockwise (is this right?).

Anyway, I tried messing with the timing by turning the dist a couple of times. No luck. Just lots of flames coming out of the carb. The dist gear is pointing to the left front bolt of the intake. Is this correct? Would this happen if the dist gear is off by a couple of teeth?

Any ideas or suggestions? BTW, I'm using an FBO ignition box, dist, coil, and ballast resistor.
 
Keith, Dick, and I pulled a 360 with 727 from a church van today at pull-a-part. Got it home in the bed of my truck on a box made of 2x12's that the oil pans sits in. Put on a thermoquad, hooked fuel lines to a gas container, pulled the electronic distributer and replaced it with points version, set the timing with a timing light by rotating the distributer. Put some gas in the carb to prime it, and in a matter of minutes, It fired, ran smooth, no knocking or smoking. I guess what I am trying to say is, you may want to use a points distributor so you can "manually" control things.
 
It still seems to me like it's out by 180-degrees. Keep in mind that when you install the timing gears and chain, per diagrams, and the indexing marks are 'opposing' each other (that is, in closest proximity) the cylinder that is set up in the FIRING position is NOT #1 but #6. The dist. rotor must be pointed to #6. Do NOT go with the 'air out of the spark plug hole' method for something this critical. What I do instead is to bar the engine over over so that (No's 1 and 6) are both at TDC. Then, back the engine (counter-clockwise) so that the balancer indicates 90 to 110-degrees BTDC. With both No.1 and No. 6 plugs removed, set up a long piece of tubing that is large enough at one end to wedge firmly into either plug hole. When you blow into plug hole No.1 and air moves out through the CARB, that would indicate No.1 cylinder is approaching its' firing position. But, if air exits the TAILPIPE, then that indicates No.1 is 'scavenging' (with exhaust just closing prior to intake opening) at next TDC. This will seem a little confusing to anyone with limited experience with valve timing and cam profiles but it works. Good luck with what you find out.
 
it does not matter where the intermeidate shaft is pointing at..as long as the firing order on the cap is correct...

set engine to TDC 1 firing..using the damper...
where is the rotor in relationship to number 1 on the cap???....move distributor to align rotor and number 1 on cap...should be close enough to fire...

also check to make sure number 5 and 7 are not backwards..

if you want to make sure that you are on number 1 firing.....remove driver side valve cover....slowly turning engine...watch as no. 1 intake valve closes...keep turning engine and stop damper as timing marks line up...then check rotor and cap alignment
 
That smacks of a the dist being 180 out. Pull it and flip it 180. Bet it fires up.
 
I cranked damper 360 degrees back to the zero which is 180 on the engine, and flipped the dist around so the rotor is still pointing toward the front. The wires don't fit very well if the #1 is at the rear.

So in essence I am at the "other" TDC but 180 from where I was. Does this make sense or am I too tired to think clearly? Anyway, I will try to crank it tomorrow morning. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks!
 
70aarcuda said:
it does not matter where the intermeidate shaft is pointing at..as long as the firing order on the cap is correct...

set engine to TDC 1 firing..using the damper...
where is the rotor in relationship to number 1 on the cap???....move distributor to align rotor and number 1 on cap...should be close enough to fire...

also check to make sure number 5 and 7 are not backwards..

if you want to make sure that you are on number 1 firing.....remove driver side valve cover....slowly turning engine...watch as no. 1 intake valve closes...keep turning engine and stop damper as timing marks line up...then check rotor and cap alignment
Click to expand...
This is the way I would do it.
 
Lots of people get hung up on what the book shows as #1 on the cap. In reality you can make #1 any position on the cap as long as everything oriented correctly.
 
Dam cars they make some of us up all night.I had the same problim almost everyone said when I was lineing up my timing marks 6 and 12 it would be fireing on #6 well guess what would not fire right up one or two back fires is all I had.So went with the advice I should of went for pulled the dizzy turned 180,open headers scared the hell out of me when it started right up. how is the gas if it is old gone bad it will ack like you said,that happened to me once also.It acked like it wanted to start big time back fireing.Put 10 bucks in it and all was well.Please let us know what you find.Some of us learn from outhers mistakes.Good luck.
 
RDJ said:
I cranked damper 360 degrees back to the zero which is 180 on the engine, and flipped the dist around so the rotor is still pointing toward the front. The wires don't fit very well if the #1 is at the rear.

So in essence I am at the "other" TDC but 180 from where I was. Does this make sense or am I too tired to think clearly? Anyway, I will try to crank it tomorrow morning. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Are you running the wires around the cap from #1(were the rotor is pointing at tdc compression stroke)in a cw or ccw direction?"
 
Got it running:cheers:. It only ran it for 10 minutes though, it was getting really hot, I shut it off at 230 degrees. The oil pressure gauge was at about 80, seems really high. Is this normal? I don't have a high pressure oil pump. Maybe it is just the cheap Sunpro gauge because the factory oil pressure gauge was pretty much in the middle. I am going to let it cool for an hour or so and check fluids and go another round.

Thanks for the help! Any suggestions for the next round before I fire it up again?
 
Snake said:
WELL what was the problim we all want to know,you cant leave us hangen.
Click to expand...

I guess it was the timing. It wasn't 180 off, I tried that and didn't help. I just moved the dist small increments until the fires stopped and then all of a sudden, BAM, it fired right up. I think my daughter was a lucky charm.

My neighbor was here as my backup, Then he had to leave. My daughter took over (grudgingly, she's 17) and after a couple of tries with moving the dist, it started up.

I didn't set the initial timing, but at 2500 rpm it is at 34 total with the vacuum plugged.

FBO curved the dist for me and their specs are 16 initial, 34 @ 3000 rpm, and they set the vacuum canister for another 14 when used. Next run I will get the timing more exact. If it is at 34 at 2500, that would be too much? Hard to say if it is all in at 2500 or not with my limited time running.

I just added water to the radiator, it took a gallon. I tried adding water while running but it was bubbling out. Rather than risk frying the engine I shut it off. I do have two house fans in front of the radiator blowing through it. Right now the engine temp is about 125 degrees, so now that I know I have a full radiator and engine block, I am going to fire it up again.

The #7 plug wire was off when I checked after shutting it down. I checked all the plug wires before starting, but apparently I didn't get that one on right, or the plug wire is loose.

Thanks again.
 
Most factory Mopar distributors were designed for a compromise between power, economy, and emissions. The advance curve of factory distributors generally starts at low initial ignition timing for easy engine starts. Then as the engine rpm increases, a combination of weights and springs inside the distributor add more ignition timing to the engine. Additionally, a vacuum-actuated control will adjust the ignition timing for part-throttle settings, helping improve economy and reduce emissions. The problem with the advance curve of most factory distributors is that it's too slow to advance the timing for a performance engine, and not enough ignition advance equals reduced power and torque. Even a mildly modified engine generally likes the timing to be fully advanced at around 2,500 rpm, and most distributors don't achieve full advance until 3,000 rpm or higher. Fortunately, changing the advance curves of most distributors simply involves taking the distributor apart and changing the internal advance springs.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/..._0809_distributor_setup_quick_tech/index.html

and Ramcharger's write-up is great!

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=67882
 
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