New Small Block Stroker Engine Noise

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340sFastback

340sFastback

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Here is a video of my newly installed 414 small block stroker engine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WME_uQHXjJA

The cam is a retrofit hydraulic roller, lift 586/540 and 236/246 @ 50 intake/exhaust. I would not think it would be this noisy. I adjusted the valves on the stand with intake off prior to installing the engine. It was much louder on one side, like knocking, so I readjusted the valves, now its about the same noise level both sides.

Engine probably has around 1 hour of run time on it. It had just got up to temp when the video was taken. It does seem to get quieter the more I run it. Oil was changed after the first 20 minutes and only had a slight trace of silver in it, nothing else. Oil pressure is around 75 cold and goes down to around 40 when hot at idle. It will easily climb to 60 hot with a little bit of throttle. Its a Mellings high volume oil pump.

The bearing clearances were checked by the shop and I also checked them with a caliper and dial bore gauge and they were perfect so not likely rods knocking. Pistons are KB745 forged step dish with .0045" piston to wall clearance as specified by KB. Block was milled to put pistons at zero deck, .039" head gasket, piston to valve clearance was more then .100".

I don't think it should be as noisy as it is.
Is there an issue here and what should I be checking?
 
Bill, I watched the video before reading your comments and noticed the noise you mentioned. Have you run it any more since the oil change? I'd like to crack that filter open and see what's in there. If you do run it again, can we get some video at the exhaust end?
 
No it shouldn't be that noisy.

It sounds like the rockers to me. Correct length push rods? I'm novice when it comes to roller cams. It reminds me of a hydraulic cam with the lifters not pumping up.
 
GTXperience said:
Bill, I watched the video before reading your comments and noticed the noise you mentioned. Have you run it any more since the oil change? I'd like to crack that filter open and see what's in there. If you do run it again, can we get some video at the exhaust end?
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This exhaust video was taken at the same time as the other video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Osr1EbWFREk

I have the oil filter from when the oil was changed after 20 minutes of run time. The oil that cam out of the pan had a slight trace of silver in it, very slight, which I would think is normal.

When the engine was on the stand I adjusted the valves 1/2 turn past zero lash. This was done with the intake off where I could watch the lifter plunger get depressed. Would one full turn past zero lash be better?
 
I have also been using a piece of 5/8" heater hose holding one side to the valve covers and the other side to my ear. No area of the valve cover is any noisier then any other area.
 
340sFastback said:
When the engine was on the stand I adjusted the valves 1/2 turn past zero lash. This was done with the intake off where I could watch the lifter plunger get depressed. Would one full turn past zero lash be better?
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You should only have 2 - 2 1/2 threads showing on the adjusting screw at the bottom of the rocker when you have it properly adjusted. No more than that.
 
what heads and rockers are you using? How many threads showing on the rocker adjusters?
Check the pushrods for rubbing where they go through the heads.
 
It's not the lower end. Definately sounds lifter/rocker related. Like was asked.. .which rockers? Any chance the rockers are hitting the valve covers? Any marks visible? Does the noise migrate at all, or is it one spot consistantly? Noise like that is not normal or good.
 
The rockers are Comp Cams Pro Magnum and they have .020" side clearance per pair. I have at most one adjuster thread showing below the rocker which is what I wanted so the oil hole would line up. I am also using the Hughes Engines rocker hold down kit. The head's push rod holes were clearanced during the build and the push rods do not hit the heads. The heads are closed chamber Edelbrocks. I removed the valve covers and there is no evidence of the rockers hitting. The noise does not sound like its on any one pair of rockers. Seems like the noise is consistent across all rockers.
 
moper said:
It's not the lower end. Definately sounds lifter/rocker related. Like was asked.. .which rockers? Any chance the rockers are hitting the valve covers? Any marks visible? Does the noise migrate at all, or is it one spot consistantly? Noise like that is not normal or good.
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Moper, thanks for replying. The noise does not move around and it seems like its consistent across all rockers and both sides of the engine. I am afraid to run it much more fearing something could get damaged. Definitely won't be going for a drive any time soon.

Is 1/2 turn past zero lash enough? I would not think it would sound like it does with 1/2 turn. I could go tighter and not close off the adjuster's oil hole.
 
Sounds as if the pushrods are to long or something of that nature. How was the rocker geometry look when you adjust the rocker? You could shim the rocker shafts up ... that would allow you to get another thread or so (I believe). I never have heard of having to have the oil hole lined up perfect but I'm willing to learn. lol
 
Oh I've have never heard of anyone going one whole turn or 3/4 but have heard of 1/4 to 1/2.
 
daredevil said:
are rocker rollers centered on valve at rest
Click to expand...

Here is a picture when I mocked them up during the build.

ProMagnumGeometry.JPG
 
Mulli they are coming up for me... 340, does the Hughes hold down kit have one narrow bolt per side for the oil to flow to the rockers?
 
moper said:
Mulli they are coming up for me... 340, does the Hughes hold down kit have one narrow bolt per side for the oil to flow to the rockers?
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Thanks.... I don't think 340 likes me. I was just trying to help.
 
mullinax95 said:
Oh I've have never heard of anyone going one whole turn or 3/4 but have heard of 1/4 to 1/2.
Click to expand...

This is right. Depends on the lifters, but it's anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 turn, depending on the rocker/threads. If you did it visually I'd say they are probably fine in terms of preload.
 
moper said:
This is right. Depends on the lifters, but it's anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 turn, depending on the rocker/threads. If you did it visually I'd say they are probably fine in terms of preload.
Click to expand...


I remember back when I did mine that I was having a hard time getting the rocker geometry correct. BJR was coaching me through that one. The heads had been cut along with the intake of course to up the compression. Probably not the best way but installed hardened washers under the shafts to bring them up a little to fix the problem.
 
I dont think the geometry is that bad if it's like what is pictured... But how much clearance is between the retainer and rocker body? I use shims sometimes too to correct things "on a budget". Using the right shims makes it just as stable as using none at all.
 
mullinax95 said:
Thanks.... I don't think 340 likes me. I was just trying to help.
Click to expand...

Mullinax, I think your are a great guy, I respect you, and I take your suggestions seriously. I have watched you go through issues with your old engine and then go about putting another engine together so I know you have knowledge and experience. I apologize if I made you feel like I was ignoring you.

I didn't see a question from you about the Hughes Hold Down Kit, I don't know why, sounds like Moper sees it. But as far as the hold down studs go, no, all the studs were the same and none were notched to increase oil flow to the rocker shaft. I did make sure the oil holes in the shaft were pointing the correct way and I checked the rocker wheel to valve stem tip geometry and it seems acceptable. I have ran the starter with the valve covers off and it all looks normal to me. I don't think rocker arm geometry is causing this noise at this point but I am want to stay open minded because the problem is not solved.

Painted2.jpg
 
moper said:
I dont think the geometry is that bad if it's like what is pictured... But how much clearance is between the retainer and rocker body? I use shims sometimes too to correct things "on a budget". Using the right shims makes it just as stable as using none at all.
Click to expand...

Moper I mocked the rockers up with a check spring and the retainer never hit the rocker. But I will check it again the next time the valve covers are off.
 
I will also add, as far as rocker oiling goes, I ran the oil pump with a drill prior to dropping in the engine. I turned the engine with valve covers off and saw oil coming out of the rockers on both heads. Enough oil it ran out of the head and dripped all over the floor.
 
340sFastback said:
Mullinax, I think your are a great guy, I respect you, and I take your suggestions seriously. I have watched you go through issues with your old engine and then go about putting another engine together so I know you have knowledge and experience. I apologize if I made you feel like I was ignoring you.
Click to expand...


Don't apologize .. I thought I might have made you mad at onetime or something.

Ok if you don't have rocker to retainer contact, the rocker geometry looks fine, then after seeing that picture I for some reason thinking the lifters aren't getting pumped up. There has to be some "slack" somewhere to have the metal to metal "tap" you are hearing.

Dang that's a nice build you got so it's got to be something simple.
 
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