New to Big Blocks

[Dana67Dart]

New question...

I'll need alternator brackets.

Aftermarket says it fits pump 2780987 and 3698468

My existing housing is casting number 2843290 and correlates to a 65-66 part number 2468007


My existing pump casting number is 2843290 I don't know if it's original or a rebuild.

The pump seems irrelevant to the brackets unless the depth is the issue

The pump HOUSING on the other hand might be different year over year.


I did a bunch of parts book looking up and see there is a AC and Non AC pump housing.
What's the difference? I'm assuming a threaded boss or the like.

The 67 non AC housing seems to be 2780987 or 2780988

Am I over thinking this?

 

[oldkimmer]

The difference is the pump itself. A/c cars use a 6 vane as they have a smaller pulley that spins the pump faster. Non a/c have 8 vanes. The pump housings all interchange right up till the last year made. Up to and including 1972 the inlet was on the drivers side. 73 up it’s on the passenger side. Kim

 

[Dana67Dart]

The difference is the pump itself. A/c cars use a 6 vane as they have a smaller pulley that spins the pump faster. Non a/c have 8 vanes.

right just like SBs...

was there any length differences like the 70 up SB is AL and longer than the CI 69 and down?

 

[oldkimmer]

right just like SBs...

was there any length differences like the 70 up SB is AL and longer than the CI 69 and down?

No all the same length.

 

[Dartswinger70]

I miss the days when 383 was a dime a dozen and 318s were free...I had alot of small block stuff come my way because someone was swapping in a 383

 

[Dana67Dart]

I miss the days when 383 was a dime a dozen and 318s were free...I

I have a 318 and 998 (90,000 miles) I'll sell for almost free!

 

[Dana67Dart]

I bought a set of used pulleys and used BB alt bracket and spacers.

The pulleys line up well but man they are close together. But equate to the 0.95 ratio of a non AC car.

The bracket looks like the ones sold at many places for 383 no AC no PS. BUT the bolt holes don't all line up. Specifically the upper one that is under the thermostat (red circle)

the (blue arrow) hole seems like it should allow access to the water pump bolt behind it but it does not. (maybe its not for that access, it doesn't make a lot of sense to be able to access it as you have to take the bolts off the brkt to get the WP out anyway) 67 and newer has the water temp sender there


I found a post on FABO that showed the bracket that has the proper spacing

B engine alternator bracket........

I drew it up based on measurements I took from the threaded bosses and the photos posted in the FBBO post.

I have since revised the 6.25" dimensions to 6.125" and the 4.75" to 4.635"

The pulleys all line up really well the way it is mocked up in the photo above, the 1.75(IIRC) spacer between the alt and the head aligns the pulley dead center on the Crank and WP. The other spacer between the water pump lower mounting bolt and the bracket (which is 1-1/8") is way too short, it needs to be closer to 1.5- 1.75, does that make sense?


I think I see the difference now. There are more than one water pump housing!

The red circles are the location of my 66 383 (2468007) and the blue is the location of the other housing (newer?) I recall seeing a note on the sellers sights for the brkt like the one shown below that it is for WP numbers 2780987 & 3698468

 

[Dana67Dart]

Well I think I have it all figured out.

I have the correct 66 and older alt bracket on order

DMPS-7301-7 Mopar Alternator Bracket Kit - 1966 & earlier Big Block without A/C - dantesparts.com

 

[matthon]

Schumacher mounts

Schumacher poly mounts are garbage, poor design, they slide apart and tear the poly.

Schumacher steel left engine mount is stout like the original, however the holes for the rubber mount are different, 1 large 1 small.
Their rubber mount comes with one large stud and one 'bump' that fits in the smaller hole.
Original steel mount has 2 holes the same size for the rubber mount, and iirc in different locations than the Schumacher.

Schumacher right steel engine mount is a cheap thin piece of junk with two 90 degree bends.
It will bend the first time you rev the engine or simply drive the car or drop it or call it names.

Original right steel engine mount will never bend no matter what you do to it.
It's obvious why if it is placed next to the Schumacher one.

I'm sure I've posted pics of all of these, but if needed I can snap more.

 

[matthon]

Here's a side by side, new mount on left, original on right.
Original has a step up just above the top hole, and the center goes up higher, with the right side being much higher.
Also, the bends on the original are less of a 90* bend like the new.

All of these contribute to a much stronger mount.

In the vise I can bend the tabs by hand on the new mount, no way on the original.

The new has the elongated upper hole, which helps with replacement mounts, but one can just extend the original upper hole if needed.

 

[matthon]

Imo, go with the rubber mounts.
Drill a hole through the entire mount and use a countersunk bolt with a lock nut and leave it loose a little bit, or use solid mounts.
Complete solid mount for the right side, readily available. Left side, would need to fabricate a steel piece to replace just the rubber mount.

Poly mounts have the steel inner 'locks' in the wrong direction, should be front to back, it's up/down.
Once the motor twists, and it doesn't just lift on the left side, it twists on both mounts, the mounts slide apart.

2nd pic is my right poly mount, poly is stretched, engine ends up sunk and/or crooked as this happens to both left and right mounts.

Hope this helps and saves some time/$.

 

[matthon]

Specifically the upper one that is under the thermostat (red circle)

That hole, that water pump housing, is for early bb cars. Whether it is for later a/c cars as well I have no idea.
When I put my 62 Dart together I wanted the 'correct' water pump housing, for some reason.

 

[Dana67Dart]

That hole, that water pump housing, is for early bb cars. Whether it is for later a/c cars as well I have no idea

I have come to the conclusion that 67 is the separation for the pump housing. The boss moved to the pass side in 67.

 

[Dana67Dart]

After all that I decided to replace the 66 water pump housing with a 67 up housing, found a great one in a local wrecking yard for 40 bucks and best of all I only had to remove 3 bolts!

Couple that with the bolts and spacers from my newly purchased 66 alt mount, use the mount I got from Al and I'm in business (fingers crossed)



BTW...

did the factory raise the water pump up 1/2" in 67. 440 source lists their pulleys at 6 13/16 and 6 1/2, My pulleys measure 6 14/16 and 6 9/16 and on the 66 housing there was barely a 1/16 between them. in the 440 source photos it looks to have a bigger gap and from my research the CL of the WP to the CL of the Crank should be 7.25" leaving almost 0.6 inches for the 440 source measurements and 0.53" for my measured pulleys.

Ill find out tomorrow when I bolt things on for another test fit.

 

[Dana67Dart]

Update... Everything fits and I have 0.090" between the two pulleys (probably the same as before)

By my measurements the crank to water pump CL to CL is 6.8" - 6.81"

1/2 the diameter of the WP pulley 6.875/2=3.4375
1/2 the diameter of the crank pulley 6.5625/2=3.28125
distance between the 2 pulleys 0.090"

3.4375+3.28125+.090=6.80875 ~6.8"-6.81"


6.8 is more likely then 6.81 and 6.75 might be even more likely but as accurately as I can measure 6.8 looks to be the number.

(for the pulley measurements I had to use a tape measure (I don't have a caliper big enough) but the measurement between the too was measured with a caliper. I should have measured in several pulley position combinations but I got lazy)

(There is a person selling a water pump pulley that he says measures 6.5" and his tape measurement shows that. My concern is the WP bolts are very close to the pulley I found a 5.75" pulley in the wrecking yard with the correct back spacing but it hits the bolt heads) I did some playdough testing and there is not a lot of space between the inner edge of the 6.875" pulley and the heads of the bolts BUT the 6.5 MIGHT fit I just don't want to risk the cash.)

 

[413]

You have it right on the WP housings and brackets.

1967 and up triangle bracket has a large hole like your photo. It is for access to the wire for the water temp sender. 1966 and back WP housing has the temp sender on the top drivers side. Smack dab under the AC compressor and a pain to get to.

The 1966 and older bracket is solid, no big hole.

The non AC pullies are close together. They can't be mixed with AC pullies, many try it and it's a big mess.

 

[Mopar Fred]

Now if someone wants to donate a couple 67 BB exhaust manifolds

If I have to I'll go 68-69

you need to use the 70-71 HP exhaust manifold if you use the earlier ones, they do not work as well as the 70–71 HP. I do have a set of them for sale. They are new. They were only used on the Dyno to see the difference between headers and exhaust manifold.