No spark, sudden failure. Electronic ignition '65 A-100

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gnukid

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Hello Mopar Enthusiasts.

I drive a Dodge 1965/66 Slant 6 170cu A-100 with electronic ignition (ignition model Chrysler EX 65 4/5 NOM Ignicio Electronico)

Suddenly while the vehicle had been running perfectly, I stopped and it no longer starts, no spark. I am trouble-shooting it back to the ignition. The engine turns over without firing.

There is power to the coil in the key on position. It appears to be near 12.6v. While turning the key on and off the main cable to the distributor sparks once on and once off but doesn't drive the distributor to spark.

I am somewhat remote now and have an electrical meter and some tools but not much else on site though I can go for parts at an autozone about an hour away.

I am thinking of replacing the coil and electronic ignition coil?

The distributor has a refluctor that is a bit worn?

Though it's hard to tell which model coil or ignition they are as a search provides no links to electronic ignition EX-65 4/5 NOM? And I'm not sure if this is my best strategy?

Thanks for any suggestions.

ignition.jpg


coil.jpg
 
normally the coil, when it goes bad, starts giving you trouble when it is hot and then works again when it cools down. Take the cap off the dist and turn the engine over a bit and make sure the dist is turning....

If you hold the dist end of the coil wire about 3/16" away from something metal on your car, and put 12 v across the coil, when you remove the 12 v, it should send a spark out the coil wire and you should see it arc.... If it does not, something is wrong with the coil.

I would also trace your wires and make sure there are no breaks or bad connectors (unplug and reconnect the connector coming off the dist as well as the one on the ignition box.... )
 
69B-Cuda said:
normally the coil, when it goes bad, starts giving you trouble when it is hot and then works again when it cools down. Take the cap off the dist and turn the engine over a bit and make sure the dist is turning....

If you hold the dist end of the coil wire about 3/16" away from something metal on your car, and put 12 v across the coil, when you remove the 12 v, it should send a spark out the coil wire and you should see it arc.... If it does not, something is wrong with the coil.

I would also trace your wires and make sure there are no breaks or bad connectors (unplug and reconnect the connector coming off the dist as well as the one on the ignition box.... )
Click to expand...

Thanks Cuda, okay I have pulled and clean the cable ends, no broken cables. I get no consistent arc when turning over only when the key clicks on and off?

The Distributor is turning properly, there is power to the coil and to the ignition. At the moment I am planning to go for a coil, though the numbers rubbed off so I have no id which one it is, I'll bring it with me to match it but would appreciate any suggestions for models based on a electronic ignition model chrysler EX-65 4/5 NOM.
 
as far as the type of coil, for your type of ignition, there are 2 main types, one for use with an external resistor, and one with an internal resistor. You should have a ballast resistor that your 12 v hot lead runs though before it gets to the coil. That should drop it to somewhere around 9 volts. Yo can run a stock coil for your car with your electronic ignition (even though it originally came with points) or, you can buy an aftermarket coil (like an Accel Super Coil or Mallory, MSD Blaster, or something similar).

I believe that none of those should be run with full 12v, they should all be used with a ballast resistor.

DOH, I just learned Mopar used a different coil for electronic ignition than for the points type. I do not know the specs on them, but while they look the same on the outside, they are set up for different voltage on the inside. A points type will work but coil life will be shortened (so it will only work for a while...)
 
69B-Cuda said:
as far as the type of coil, for your type of ignition, there are 2 main types, one for use with an external resistor, and one with an internal resistor. You should have a ballast resistor that your 12 v hot lead runs though before it gets to the coil. That should drop it to somewhere around 9 volts. Yo can run a stock coil for your car with your electronic ignition (even though it originally came with points) or, you can buy an aftermarket coil (like an Accel Super Coil or Mallory, MSD Blaster, or something similar).

I believe that none of those should be run with full 12v, they should all be used with a ballast resistor.
Click to expand...

I have had problems when running them without the resistor. I would burn through the coils very quickly. They must use resistor.

Before buying coil, make sure your ign switch is working correctly, sounds like it is, but always better to make sure. Also check to see if your trigger wire is working.

Good luck
 
69B-Cuda said:
as far as the type of coil, for your type of ignition, there are 2 main types, one for use with an external resistor, and one with an internal resistor. You should have a ballast resistor that your 12 v hot lead runs though before it gets to the coil. That should drop it to somewhere around 9 volts. Yo can run a stock coil for your car with your electronic ignition (even though it originally came with points) or, you can buy an aftermarket coil (like an Accel Super Coil or Mallory, MSD Blaster, or something similar).

I believe that none of those should be run with full 12v, they should all be used with a ballast resistor.
Click to expand...

Cuda,

Cool, I am out in the boondocks in Baja now and it's pretty dusty and greasy, I was using an old voltmeter with a bad battery so I read about 9v on the positive side but assumed it was a bad voltmeter connection! Good.

I have a external resistor, the simple white box spring type. The Coil writing came off as I wiped it down, I can barely read Mantica Coil but the numbers are not readable, does anyone have a part number that I can use for something that will work? I can go to a Napa or AutoZone in La Paz. Thanks mucho.
 
Trigger wire? How can I check or research this?

I am concerned that it is something as simple as that... I checked the electronic ignition and I find one lead is hot when the key is on.
 
I don't have a part #... just go get the stock coil for your car... or one from something like a 1985 Dodge Diplomat.... as long as it is a 12 v coil for use with an external resistor, you are good.
 
whenever you get only one spark when you cycle the key on and off. .. ballast resistor is the problem. Happy moparing
 
Yeah I got pulled over for speeding the other day. I had to explain, really I was going about 30mph, it took a while, but when I quoted the gears, horsepower and so forth I finally convinced them I wasn't going fast, only that it sounds and looks fast. Haha.
 
I am pretty convinced it's not the ballast as I replace it every year and it's newish. Normally a bad ballast would occur when its hot and then start when its cold at least once before it failed completly, though I will grab one as well and check it out. Reporting back soon. Thanks everyone
 
Nice van!

Testing dist pick up

ohm meter at wiring harness post 4 and 5 check with ign off
resistance should be between 150-900 ohms

if higher or lower than spec : disconnect 2 wire plug going to dist.
check resistance here spec should be 150-900 ohms if not replace pick up assy.

Hopefully this helps
If you want I can scan pages and email you a pdf of all ign tests for electronic ign.

good luck
 
I replaced the electronic ignition module, ballast and coil with no change.

Motor turns over but no spark to plugs.

I will test the resistance to the distributor.

Coil has 9v coming to it.

I would like to buy a new distributor cap and a cable from the coil to the distributor.

Anything else I can check?
 
RedFish said:
whenever you get only one spark when you cycle the key on and off. .. ballast resistor is the problem. Happy moparing
Click to expand...

I probably should have said 99% of the time. It does take 2 different wires to start it. The ignition switch sends a full 12 volts on 1 wire in the start postion and 12 volts through the ballast resistor on a different wir in the run position.
Therfore a bad ignition switch or failed connections at the bulkhead connecter could produce the same symptom.
And temperature related intermitent failure as you described before is in the ignition module, not the ballast resistor.
I'm gonna throw this in even though I dont quite understand it. A few owners have had a short in the altenater that would prevent start. Pull the green or both blue and green field wires off the alt. just to rule that out. Good luck.
 
RedFish said:
I probably should have said 99% of the time. It does take 2 different wires to start it. The ignition switch sends a full 12 volts on 1 wire in the start postion and 12 volts through the ballast resistor on a different wir in the run position.
Therfore a bad ignition switch or failed connections at the bulkhead connecter could produce the same symptom.
And temperature related intermitent failure as you described before is in the ignition module, not the ballast resistor.
I'm gonna throw this in even though I dont quite understand it. A few owners have had a short in the altenater that would prevent start. Pull the green or both blue and green field wires off the alt. just to rule that out. Good luck.
Click to expand...

It does seem most likely the ignition switch wire is faulty. I'd like to check this and follow this from the ignition to its destination though its a bit hard to follow and check on my own. I'll try to find a helper.

I assume it starts at the key start position? Then where does the 12v ignition switch power go next to to spark the dist?

I am obviously not well versed (yet)-if only I knew where to look-besides its lots of fun. Thanks very much for your input!
 
You said "The distributor has a refluctor that is a bit worn" .It should not wear at all as it touches nothing. I would check the pick up coil. Unplug the two wire plug and use the meter on it-you should get a few hundred ohms for the coil in the distributor. If it is open its bad. And to set the gap you must use brass or paper or wood. never use anything that is magnetic like steel/iron.
 
If you suspect a bad ignition switch you can jump 12 volts from the battery positive terminal to the positive side of the coil and try to start it. If it starts then the ignition switch is your problem.
 
RedFish said:
I probably should have said 99% of the time. It does take 2 different wires to start it. The ignition switch sends a full 12 volts on 1 wire in the start postion and 12 volts through the ballast resistor on a different wir in the run position.
Therfore a bad ignition switch or failed connections at the bulkhead connecter could produce the same symptom.
And temperature related intermitent failure as you described before is in the ignition module, not the ballast resistor.
I'm gonna throw this in even though I dont quite understand it. A few owners have had a short in the altenater that would prevent start. Pull the green or both blue and green field wires off the alt. just to rule that out. Good luck.
Click to expand...

I have 9v volts to the coil at key on and 9v at the end of the wire to the dist, the coil is brand new.

1) Where does the second ignition wire come from or go to to spark? I have a electronic 5 nom ignition module?

2) When you say check OHM at the dist two wire connector, do you mean from the disconnected wire side or from the Dist side and which is positive or neg? or where is a good place to measure from? so far nothing.
 
oneway71 said:
Nice van!

Testing dist pick up

ohm meter at wiring harness post 4 and 5 check with ign off
resistance should be between 150-900 ohms

if higher or lower than spec : disconnect 2 wire plug going to dist.
check resistance here spec should be 150-900 ohms if not replace pick up assy.

Hopefully this helps
If you want I can scan pages and email you a pdf of all ign tests for electronic ign.

good luck
Click to expand...

I do get a reading of between 150-900 ohms with ignition off.

I would like to find this second ignition wire?

I can easily access the key ignition and find the start on wire at that position, but where does it go from there?
 
Problem solved-thanks guys!

I had a friend help troubleshoot. We found that we could get a spark after cleaning up everything and then we removed the plugs which had been fouled quite a bit during the recent trouble shooting electrical and some bad gas. After a clean up the slant six baby fired up fine, like always.

Now that she is running, I'll get some new plugs, cables, distributor and plug sleeves and rubber sealers, we'll pull the valve cover and adjust the valves and replace the gasket and see how she runs.

I imagine a overhaul to replace the rings might be nice soon too.

Does any one have an idea which plugs are recommended for a 170 slant six and where I might find the gap measurement for the valves?

Thanks again to all, happy moparing.
 
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