no start help please

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mac daddy mopar

mac daddy mopar

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I put the engine in my scamp, went to start it and it won't turn over with the key, I can jump the relay and it turns over, the amp gauge drops down when I turn the key, I have 12.59 volts at the battery and coil, with the key in the run position I have 6.27, thanks in advance, Mark
 
did you hook up the neutral safety switch. if you dont have the harness you can just run a ground from the pin on the relay.
 
yes, I even checked the harness over as I was plugging everything in, and I have a ground strap from the fire wall to the engine, and a ground wire from the neg cable end to the core support, any more ideals? thanks for the quick reply, Mark
 
daredevil said:
did you hook up the neutral safety switch. if you dont have the harness you can just run a ground from the pin on the relay.
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well I tried that and still no go, when I jump the relay, the engine turns over but won't start, and the ballast resistor and wires get warm.
 
I am having a hard time thinking today but if you don't have anything at all with the key, not even a crank then I'd think that your not getting the ignition circuit involved when you jump at the starter relay. Check for spark while cranking and go from there. I think all your doing is turning over the engine without the ignition being charged.
 
I don't get spark at the plugs, I thought my new dist. might be bad, so I put one in out of my truck, still no go.
 
electronic, I have 12.60 volts at the coil with the key off and 6.27 with the key on (run). when I turn the key to start my amp gauge drops like it would if the engine was cranking.
 
now I have no voltage to the coil with the key off, and with the key on I still have 6.27 volts, how can that be? and the main big red wire gets warm at the bulk head, grounding the nss don't work, jumper wire to the coil don't work, at this point I'm ready to toss a point dist. in and a toggle switch for the starter, any ideals on what the hell is up with my wiring? I also put a ground strap from the ecm to body, so I now have 4 grounding points under the hood.
 
mac daddy mopar said:
now I have no voltage to the coil with the key off, and with the key on I still have 6.27 volts, how can that be? and the main big red wire gets warm at the bulk head, grounding the nss don't work, jumper wire to the coil don't work, at this point I'm ready to toss a point dist. in and a toggle switch for the starter, any ideals on what the hell is up with my wiring? I also put a ground strap from the ecm to body, so I now have 4 grounding points under the hood.
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did you check the balast resistor. it may be burnt. also is ecm melted on the back?
 
the ballast resistor checks out ok and gets warm with the key on, the ecu also checks out ok according to the fsm, the wiring diagrams are a pain to follow, but I think my problem may be under the dash, as I have found a few cut wires and one thing that wasn't plugged in, there is a brown and a yellow wires by the fuse block that have the end cut off, any ideal what these are?
thank you for your time and help on this.

Mark
 
gts340 said:
I am having a hard time thinking today but if you don't have anything at all with the key, not even a crank then I'd think that your not getting the ignition circuit involved when you jump at the starter relay. Check for spark while cranking and go from there. I think all your doing is turning over the engine without the ignition being charged.
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I've been reading the fsm and everything else I can find on this, how would I check for the ignition circuit?
 
mac daddy mopar said:
I've been reading the fsm and everything else I can find on this, how would I check for the ignition circuit?
Click to expand...

If it were me, I would pull the dist. back out, hook up the wiring connector of the dist. to the appropriate connector to the ECU, turn on the key, have the coil high voltage wire plugged into the coil on
one end and the other end about 1/4" away from a good ground and then just turn the dist. by hand and check for spark which it should. If not have a volt meter connected to the coil + and read voltage as you slowly turn the dist. and read the voltages. It will change from battery voltage to the voltage drop voltage of the ballast resistor. Then I would disconnect the wire from the starter relay going down to starter so the relay will energize but not crank the engine, have someone hold the key in the crank position while you check voltage readings @ the coil + and turn the dist. checking for spark.
 
still no spark or crank with the key, and I have a voltage drop to the ballast resistor now, it was 12.80 and now it's 10.70, I have no ideal if I'm making any headway or not, as this is the first time I've ever had a electrical problem in any mopar, is there a down and dirty way to make this car run?
 
mac daddy mopar said:
still no spark or crank with the key, and I have a voltage drop to the ballast resistor now, it was 12.80 and now it's 10.70, I have no ideal if I'm making any headway or not, as this is the first time I've ever had a electrical problem in any mopar, is there a down and dirty way to make this car run?
Click to expand...


1- pull the ecu, take it to a parts store that can check it and see what they say

2- I might put a new ignition switch in it with all the cranking problems you seem to be having.

3- pull the bulkhead connector and look at all the connectors for corrosion and signs of heat.

4- bypass your ammeter or at very least make sure the two wires going to it are tight.

5- IF, all else fails, get an old points dist. and use it to get it running and then work back from there.
 
nothingbutdarts said:
1- pull the ecu, take it to a parts store that can check it and see what they say

2- I might put a new ignition switch in it with all the cranking problems you seem to be having.

3- pull the bulkhead connector and look at all the connectors for corrosion and signs of heat.

4- bypass your ammeter or at very least make sure the two wires going to it are tight.

5- IF, all else fails, get an old points dist. and use it to get it running and then work back from there.
Click to expand...
ecu checks out good
bulkhead connections are clean and tight
I''ll get a new ignition switch if I need to, is there a way to test the one in it?
and I'll pull the dash and check the wires.
and I have ordered a point dist. as I cant get the electronic to work, even tho everything checks out good:angry7:
if I could get the damn thing to crank with the key, and fire at the coil I'd be a happy happy man, instead of the pissed off sumbitch I've turned into dealing with this freaking wiring, I tore the whole under hood wiring apart to check for bad spots and none was found. thanks for your help.

Mark
 
mac daddy mopar said:
ecu checks out good
bulkhead connections are clean and tight
I''ll get a new ignition switch if I need to, is there a way to test the one in it?
and I'll pull the dash and check the wires.
and I have ordered a point dist. as I cant get the electronic to work, even tho everything checks out good:angry7:
if I could get the damn thing to crank with the key, and fire at the coil I'd be a happy happy man, instead of the pissed off sumbitch I've turned into dealing with this freaking wiring, I tore the whole under hood wiring apart to check for bad spots and none was found. thanks for your help.

Mark
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I don't think you have to pull the dash to feel up there to see if the ammeter connections feel loose.

Did it run with the electronic dist. before you put the engine in it?

Do you have someone who can hold the key in the crank position while you check voltage at the relay? If so of the two smaller gauge wires, one should have "battery voltage" while it in the crank position, the other goes to a good ground thru the clutch switch/neutral switch. Check voltages with a voltmeter. It should be pretty straight foreward there. As well you should have battery voltage at the bigger terminals on the relay when it's energized.

I would be checking for voltage at the connector for the ECU on the dark blue/yellow wire. Is it a 4 or 5 pin ECU??
 
I wish I could help you. I know you logged in on my post at least were not the only idiot that can't figure this s**t out. Today I put in new nuetral safety switch and adjusted the linkage for the tranny. I still cant get her to start without jumping her at the relay. Unless she wants to she fire sometimes in nuetral and then park?? Frustrated and don't know what to do next good luck. I keep watching your posts.
 
67ragtop said:
I wish I could help you. I know you logged in on my post at least were not the only idiot that can't figure this s**t out. Today I put in new nuetral safety switch and adjusted the linkage for the tranny. I still cant get her to start without jumping her at the relay. Unless she wants to she fire sometimes in nuetral and then park?? Frustrated and don't know what to do next good luck. I keep watching your posts.
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I have 12.60 volts to 3 of the 5 wires to the ecu.
it's a 5 pin ecu, I seem to have voltage everywhere I should, but it still wonk crank by the key or fire, and it'll be the weekend before I can get someone over here to hold the key in start while I caeck for voltage at the relay, as I work 2nd shift and everyone else works 1st, and the way the wiring has been making me nuts, the wife won't go near the garage, not for love or money.
I did reach up and the wires to the amp gauge are tight, thanks again for the help.

Mark
 
mac daddy mopar said:
I put the engine in my scamp, went to start it and it won't turn over with the key, I can jump the relay and it turns over, the amp gauge drops down when I turn the key, I have 12.59 volts at the battery and coil, with the key in the run position I have 6.27, thanks in advance, Mark
Click to expand...
I would make sure that a wire wasnt pinched in between the engine and transmission ect.
 
nothingbutdarts said:
Did it run with the current electronic ignition syst. before you changed the engine??
Click to expand...


the kid I got it from said it did, he was pulling the engine to paint the bay, but where I had it apart so long, if I needed a part I would just grab one from the scamp, instead of looking on the shelf:angry7: and I had the wiring out of the engine bay when engine and trans were installed, wiring was the last thing I installed before new gas hit the tank.

but on the plus side, I was under the dash checking the wiring, put the key in and the buzzer went off:cheers: this is the first sound this car has made on it's own in the 5-6 years that I've owned it, so I turn the key to start and it cranks:toothy10: so I let off and check under the hood to make sure I hooked everything back up, good to go there, back inside, key in the switch, buzzer sounds, life is good, turn key to start and nothing](*,) wtf, back under the dash shake the hell outta the wires, turn the key and she cranks:-D so now I know where to look, the kid I got the car from had a huge *** sound system installed and I pulled all the extra wiring out, he had 5 leads from the positive side of the battery:angry7: and I found wires cut under the dash.

drivers side by the fuse block, 1 brown wire taped to 1yellow wire

by the ash tray steering column side, 1 red wire

by the ashtray glove box side 1 orange wire and 1 pink wire that has a male connector with a cut pink wire.

and my top left fuse don't work, fuse is good, the fuse box calls it no# 1, but the fsm calls it no#6, all I know is that it's not getting juice.

can anyone tell me what the cut wires are? and what the hell fuse 1 or 6 goes to? the only thing I can find in the fsm:read2: is one wire is g 5 20 dbl and the other is j2b 12 dbl, and dbl stands for dark blue, but one of the wires is orange, and the haynes manual well let's just call that piece of **** what it is:angry7: the only fuse block it shows is a blade type. so I'm at a loss, any ideals?

Mark
 
mac daddy mopar said:
the kid I got it from said it did, he was pulling the engine to paint the bay, but where I had it apart so long, if I needed a part I would just grab one from the scamp, instead of looking on the shelf:angry7: and I had the wiring out of the engine bay when engine and trans were installed, wiring was the last thing I installed before new gas hit the tank.

but on the plus side, I was under the dash checking the wiring, put the key in and the buzzer went off:cheers: this is the first sound this car has made on it's own in the 5-6 years that I've owned it, so I turn the key to start and it cranks:toothy10: so I let off and check under the hood to make sure I hooked everything back up, good to go there, back inside, key in the switch, buzzer sounds, life is good, turn key to start and nothing](*,) wtf, back under the dash shake the hell outta the wires, turn the key and she cranks:-D so now I know where to look, the kid I got the car from had a huge *** sound system installed and I pulled all the extra wiring out, he had 5 leads from the positive side of the battery:angry7: and I found wires cut under the dash.

drivers side by the fuse block, 1 brown wire taped to 1yellow wire

by the ash tray steering column side, 1 red wire

by the ashtray glove box side 1 orange wire and 1 pink wire that has a male connector with a cut pink wire.

and my top left fuse don't work, fuse is good, the fuse box calls it no# 1, but the fsm calls it no#6, all I know is that it's not getting juice.

can anyone tell me what the cut wires are? and what the hell fuse 1 or 6 goes to? the only thing I can find in the fsm:read2: is one wire is g 5 20 dbl and the other is j2b 12 dbl, and dbl stands for dark blue, but one of the wires is orange, and the haynes manual well let's just call that piece of **** what it is:angry7: the only fuse block it shows is a blade type. so I'm at a loss, any ideals?

Mark
Click to expand...

Mark,

This was in another thread, go here and look up your specific year and model. This should help you with the wires!!

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=24

Kim

As a suggestion, you mentioned you have no help till the weekend, make yourself up some jumper wires so that you can be in the car and take your readings while in there. That way you can see what's going on under the hood from the drivers seat. Some aligator clips and wire go a long way to help save time and frusteration.
 
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=24

I have that in my favorites, I guess I'm a special kind of dumb, as I've been going over wiring diagrams for a week now, and still can't figure it out, that and I didn't even think of using the long jumper wires that I already made up, that's how bad this wiring deal is messing with my head, thanks for the reminder.

Mark
 
well the fsm is right, I guess the picture of the fuse box is reversed, as fuse slot one, has the orange and tan wires, and they go to the dash and package lights, I still have to trace them down, but I jumped back on the body work so I can paint it, should be back on the wiring friday, and if all goes well, on the road saturday, thanks all for the help and keeping me somewhat sane.

Mark
 
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