No start on '65 Dart...

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53ryder

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Newbie to this ignition deal!

'65 Dart not starting. Turns over very well. Will not catch. So I thought maybe I'd start with new points/condenser. Got new points and condenser today and installed them. Went to set gap. My distributor shaft isn't turning at all. Won't the shaft turn even if cap is off? Is that necessarily a sign that the timing belt has come off or is broken? Or did I do something in wrong sequence?


Glenn
 
the distributor will not spin unless spun by the cam. if it spins with the motor off then the gear has broken off the dizzy. your just gonna have to bump the motor over or grab the belt and fan and spin it over. gap it and then try some diag.

is there power on both sides of the ballast resistor? (white block of ceramic on firewall or inner fender on drivers side)

pull a plug wire and see if there is any spark? if no the pull coil wire and see if there is spark.

with key on, engine off, see if there is power to the coil.

let us know!
 
Timing chain...thank you. Have had 2 people in the last month look at this and tell me there's 'good' spark'. I was sitting in car operating ignition switch so I actually didn't see spark. But being newish to this I wouldn't know the difference between good and not so good spark.


Is this the ballast resistor? How do I determine if it's working right?
 

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53ryder said:
Timing chain...thank you. Have had 2 people in the last month look at this and tell me there's 'good' spark'. I was sitting in car operating ignition switch so I actually didn't see spark. But being newish to this I wouldn't know the difference between good and not so good spark.


Is this the ballast resistor? How do I determine if it's working right?
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yes thats the ballast. you need an ohm/volt meter, one side should have about 12 volts running and the other should have from 3-9v depending on the ohm of that ballast.

but with you saying its got spark we need to verify it has spark and then go from there.

so get the points set and check for spark. if spark is good then its fuel or air...
 
I checked the ballast resistor. I took one prong of my multimeter and held it against one of the metal tabs extending from the ballast resistor. The other multimeter prong I pushed it into the plug that slid over the metal tab. With the ignition key on and my multimeter set at 20 on the DCV side of the display the readout was 11.48. I got the same reading on the other end of the ballast resistor. Did I have the multimeter prongs in the wrong places or on the incorrect setting? I can post some pictures of what I did if that will help!

Glenn
 
53ryder said:
I checked the ballast resistor. I took one prong of my multimeter and held it against one of the metal tabs extending from the ballast resistor. The other multimeter prong I pushed it into the plug that slid over the metal tab. With the ignition key on and my multimeter set at 20 on the DCV side of the display the readout was 11.48. I got the same reading on the other end of the ballast resistor. Did I have the multimeter prongs in the wrong places or on the incorrect setting? I can post some pictures of what I did if that will help!

Glenn
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a multi meter in a voltage setting only shows you a difference of voltage... so you need to put the black lead to ground and the red to your test object.
 
If the distributor shaft isn't turning it doesn't matter what happens electrically it will never start! You need to find out what the mechanical failure is that is keeping the shaft from turning. What type of engine are you working on?
 
Lonewolf3165 said:
If the distributor shaft isn't turning it doesn't matter what happens electrically it will never start! You need to find out what the mechanical failure is that is keeping the shaft from turning. What type of engine are you working on?
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shaft cant turn if its in the motor. and its slant section.
 
805moparkid said:
we need the OP to clarify what is happening and what he sees lol
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Agreed. He is new with engines so may not be describing things correctly.

Does "distributor shaft doesn't turn" mean he can't turn it by hand with the engine off? If so, that is good.

Maybe he means the rotor doesn't turn while the engine is cranking over. If so, either the plastic gear at the bottom of the distributor has broken (common and a cheap fix) or the timing chain or gear has failed (unlikely, but labor intensive repair). I know some Mopars came with a nylon camshaft gear, but not sure about slants. I doubt this is what he means since he doesn't know isn't looking at the engine while cranking (no remote starter switch).
 
BillGrissom said:
Agreed. He is new with engines so may not be describing things correctly.

Does "distributor shaft doesn't turn" mean he can't turn it by hand with the engine off? If so, that is good.

Maybe he means the rotor doesn't turn while the engine is cranking over. If so, either the plastic gear at the bottom of the distributor has broken (common and a cheap fix) or the timing chain or gear has failed (unlikely, but labor intensive repair). I know some Mopars came with a nylon camshaft gear, but not sure about slants. I doubt this is what he means since he doesn't know isn't looking at the engine while cranking (no remote starter switch).
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i dont know for sure about the 80's slants but i know all the earlier ones had a pressed on nylon gear.
 
805moparkid said:
that would be a gear or chain.
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Could be a lot more than just that. And you still can't turn the rotor on the dist if the timing chain or gears are broken. Valve spring tension prevents it. Got to get a lot more information before we send an inexperienced guy through a bunch of tests all over the place & get him all confused. That's why I asked; what is he working on?
 
Lonewolf3165 said:
Could be a lot more than just that. And you still can't turn the rotor on the dist if the timing chain or gears are broken. Valve spring tension prevents it. Got to get a lot more information before we send an inexperienced guy through a bunch of tests all over the place & get him all confused. That's why I asked; what is he working on?
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on a small block and BB your right, the dizzy on those goes into an intermediate shaft that runs off the cam. on a slant the cam has a gear in the middle of the shaft that drives the oil pump and distributor independently. And when the plastic gear breaks on the distributor you can spin the rotor with the motor off.

if the timing chain or gears broke then yes your right.
 
The engine is a 225cid slant six. I guess I thought that I would see the distributor shaft spin if I had someone, my son, turning the ignition key like he was trying to start it.

Glenn.
 
53ryder said:
The engine is a 225cid slant six. I guess I thought that I would see the distributor shaft spin if I had someone, my son, turning the ignition key like he was trying to start it.

Glenn.
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thats a good start. let us know
 
805moparkid said:
i dont know for sure about the 80's slants but i know all the earlier ones had a pressed on steel gear.
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My '63 and '64 /6 dizzys have pinned on nylon gears. I would pull the dist and check, since that's the easiest and cheapest thing to do. Let's hope that shows the problem.

ATB

BC
 
64ragtop said:
My '63 and '64 /6 dizzys have pinned on nylon gears. I would pull the dist and check, since that's the easiest and cheapest thing to do. Let's hope that shows the problem.

ATB

BC
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I can get the cap off, remove the points and condenser. What do I do next to remove the rest of the distributor?

Glenn
 
There's a bolt under the dizzy towards the front of the motor that when you loosen it, you can move the dizzy to time it. Just remove said bolt and pull the dizzy out, if thats what your trying to do.
 
There's a screw at the base of the distributor, toward the front of the engine that goes through a plate and into the engine block. You might have to scrape old greasy dirt off the area and you might need a flashlight to find it. Rotate the crankshaft until the distributor rotor points toward the engine block, Make a mark on the block that will be visible when you re-install the distributor. Maybe clean the side of the block and use a magic marker, or scribe a mark in the paint. Once you remove the screw, carefully remove the distributor by pulling it upward and maybe rotating it. Look for damage to the gear at the bottom of the distributor shaft.

ATB

BC
 
64ragtop said:
My '63 and '64 /6 dizzys have pinned on nylon gears. I would pull the dist and check, since that's the easiest and cheapest thing to do. Let's hope that shows the problem.

ATB

BC
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that was a mis-type. i ment nylon gear. fixing that now...
 
Pulled distributor (dizzy as some call it) today. Here's some pictures of what I found.


As you can see only half the gear at the bottom came out. So the other half is still in the engine. Is this fatal? Can I get the other half out by removing the oil pan? Can I put another dizzy in and run the engine with no worries? Help sought!



Glenn
 

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53ryder said:
Pulled distributor (dizzy as some call it) today. Here's some pictures of what I found.


As you can see only half the gear at the bottom came out. So the other half is still in the engine. Is this fatal? Can I get the other half out by removing the oil pan? Can I put another dizzy in and run the engine with no worries? Help sought!



Glenn
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no its not fatal... it wont make it thru the pickup screen. you can get a new gear from NAPA or ebay... never had any luck finding one thru anyone else...
 
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