Im planing on performing most of Guitar Jones's mods to my big-ish hydraulic camed 318. powerband ends at 6500rpm so thats all i plan on spinning it. 2 main questions: 1. I cant find oil pickups with advertised 5/8" ID pickup, is this a custom setup? Is this size even neccessary? or does someone have a part# for one? I havent deciced on a aftermarket center sump oil pan, but theres not much info advertised on the matching pickup tube for them. 2. ive purchased 12" long 5/16" & 1/2" drill bits from Fastenal for drilling the block, but the only option for this length was the standard black oxide finish bits (not ideal for cutting metal). I was curious to those of you who've done this mod what bits did you use? The bare 318 block is on the engine stand, back from the machine shop, and almost ready to start assembly. I appreciate any help.
Oiling mod questions
- Thread starter 73beast
- Start date
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74DartSwinger360
The Brat Pack
I would like to do this but lost the link to his posts. Could you post it?
Thanks
Thanks
fishy68
Tyr Fryr's Inc.
From what I've seen 5/8 pickups are generally for high dollar race pans only and you have to use a special oil pump cover with them. I've built a number of high perf. engines and all I use is a good aftermarket pickup that goes with the oil pan I'm using. If you have trouble finding the right pickup for the pan you want call the manufacturer and they will tell you what you need. Make sure and debur the insides of the pickup and clean it real good and use a little pipe sealer (regular pipe dope, not teflon tape) on the threads where it goes into the oil pump.
Blocks drill pretty easy. I used black oxide bits on mine too and they worked fine. Make sure you cleam that baby super good after you do the drillin. wouldn't want all that metal go through the bearings.
Blocks drill pretty easy. I used black oxide bits on mine too and they worked fine. Make sure you cleam that baby super good after you do the drillin. wouldn't want all that metal go through the bearings.
Thanks fishy68, i will likely take it back to my machinists to get it tanked again before assembly. Just thought it was a good idea to ask questions and have a solid game plan before taking a drill bit to my investment.
moper
Well-Known Member
If you read the post you'll note I commented that these mods are total overkill for any but the most aggressive, high rpm (7K plus), or extended full throttle at 6K plus like in road or endurance racing. You DONT need a 5/8 pickup because the top end doesnt need a large volume of oil, and the lower end isn;t being built with the wide clearances that require a ton of oil either. As noted - the high volume pumps use a bolt on cover that either has a second pickup to feed the pump from two places, or one larger pickup in the cover that replaces the factory design entirely. They are pricey, and as I said, you don't need it. You need good clearances, no taper on the journals, and careful assembly.
That being said, if you want to drill, the specialized bit I use is black oxide, high speed steel, and it's been used on a bunch of engines. Use oil, use the correct speed, and it's fine. Cast iron is very soft.
That being said, if you want to drill, the specialized bit I use is black oxide, high speed steel, and it's been used on a bunch of engines. Use oil, use the correct speed, and it's fine. Cast iron is very soft.
It does seem like overkill, but the fact that it hardly effects the budget makes it appealing if there is anything to gain from it. most of all (it being a hydraulic lifter engine) the one feed for both sides of the lifter galleys with the crossover tube seems like a worth while opperation. But I wouldn't mind talking myself out of it considering its all clean, machined, and in a bag.
I wish some one would build a large pickup tube that fits the stock location pan or even an after market pan.
The only ones i could find were for a Rear sump with the spec pump cover. :sad10:
It may be over kill, but i like to do that!;) and i'm no good with a welder :happy9:
The only ones i could find were for a Rear sump with the spec pump cover. :sad10:
It may be over kill, but i like to do that!;) and i'm no good with a welder :happy9:
As Moper said , the black oxide bit will work fine (I just did my 4th engine with mine) use lots of oil and go slow as the bit wants to catch and just keep bringing the bit out of the hole to remove the cuttings then clean,clean,and clean some more.
bad440
everything,all the time..
isnt it also a waste of time on a hydro cammed engine? these mods are for a mechanical or roller
fishy68
Tyr Fryr's Inc.
Most aftermarket pickups designed for a center sump pan have a slightly larger i.d. than stock pickups. The issue is the oil pump body's 3/8" pipe inlet. Anything that screws into it can only be so big internally. The only way to get a much larger pickup is the type that screws into the special pump cover and it won't clear a center sump pan.
moper
Well-Known Member
All the mods listed are for a host of mopar specific oil system maladies. But pretty much all of them are causes for bearing stress and failure at high rpm... When there isnt enough oil being pumped for whatever reason to maintain all the clearances. So the type of flat tappet cam isn't really important when you look at oil control. And all these are for oil control. Not just volume and pressure. You can have all the pressure in the world and still cook bearings. With the newest versions of "drop in" lifters, the oil pressure issues rollers can create are also not such a big deal. I still refuse to tube - I bush the bores when I'm running a solid roller and/or need to make big reliable power. But the premise is mostly the same: re-direct oil from the lifters to the lower end, and reduce the pressure drop from lifter-to-bore clearance to nothing or bare minimum.
A drill, and tap, could cure the 3/8 problem(which i am comfy doing) just needs a bigger pick-up tube.
I'm sure the after market or, even the factory stock one will be fine for the low rpm that i will be turning this stroker at, for now...................
Just wish some one would build a larger pick up for a center sump ;).
And some one will!! After i have this eng installed in my car. Yeah Yeah i know.:-({|=
Thanks for the input guys, im going to move ahead with the build w/out doing the mods, and using a standard replacement oil pump. I'll be using stock rods as well so i wont be reving the hell out of it anyway. Just close to 6.5k for short periods.
bad440
everything,all the time..
thanks for explaining that moper mike
fishy68
Tyr Fryr's Inc.
A drill, and tap, could cure the 3/8 problem(which i am comfy doing) just needs a bigger pick-up tube.
I'm sure the after market or, even the factory stock one will be fine for the low rpm that i will be turning this stroker at, for now...................
Just wish some one would build a larger pick up for a center sump ;).
And some one will!! After i have this eng installed in my car. Yeah Yeah i know.:-({|=
Depends on who made the pump. I have a Sealed Power pump and a Melling's on the bench and measure them and where the inlet screws into the Mellings would be too thin to tap to 1/2" IMO (I assume that's what your refering too). After drilling and tapping the wall around the inlet would barely be .100" thick. The Sealed Power pump is .100" thicker so I don't think it'd be a problem with it.
Good info, Thanks!
fishy68
Tyr Fryr's Inc.
Your welcome.
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