Ol' Blue's magnum swap

dartslantsix

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Do you have any pics of the driver's side header installed in the car? I know you used Sanderson headers, but which part number were these?
 

Blackhatguy

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DD9, but they are for manual steering. I got them to work, but it took some heavy massaging on both the headers and the steering box.

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jedrattle

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Thank you for taking the time to post up. I have a '64 Valiant V8/4spd car. I want to put my mag motor in it. I want headers. I think those might be better with a smaller steering box.
 

Blackhatguy

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Thank you for taking the time to post up. I have a '64 Valiant V8/4spd car. I want to put my mag motor in it. I want headers. I think those might be better with a smaller steering box.
Yes, they were designed with manual steering in mind. In that case I believe they would work with no massaging or other headaches.
 

Blackhatguy

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You can use LA heads on a Mag.
Never said you couldn't, it just takes some Machining to do it on the later blocks which is what I have. 93, 94, and Midway through the 95 model year they were cast with the oil provisions that allow La heads to oil properly. Once they ran out of those blocks though, they didn't cast any more that way. Later blocks require Machining in the oil galley to send oil up the LA head to the rocker shaft.
 

Blackhatguy

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Why would you want to?
If you're going aftermarket, there is much more support and a wider variety of awesome race heads. No such luck with aftermarket Magnum heads. You can find a hot Magnum head, but not much in the way of race powered air flow.
 

Blackhatguy

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I'm down to the mundane parts now, and it doesn't help that I took a two month break on it since my dad passed away. Even if it seems silly, it just didn't feel right to be working on it without him. Still doesn't, but it needs done. Got the linkages hooked up last night, not a huge fan of the way I got my throttle pedal rigged up but it works. I'll post up some pictures of it later so everybody can flame me out for my boneheaded engineering skills LOL
 

Jadaharabi

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I'm down to the mundane parts now, and it doesn't help that I took a two month break on it since my dad passed away. Even if it seems silly, it just didn't feel right to be working on it without him. Still doesn't, but it needs done. Got the linkages hooked up last night, not a huge fan of the way I got my throttle pedal rigged up but it works. I'll post up some pictures of it later so everybody can flame me out for my boneheaded engineering skills LOL

Sorry about your dad. Lost mine a little over 2 years ago.

Thanks for the swap info
 

Maistrelli

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Thank you for taking the time to post up. I have a '64 Valiant V8/4spd car. I want to put my mag motor in it. I want headers. I think those might be better with a smaller steering box.
I'm with you, have same, 64, v8, 4 spd. Later bell hsg. for 10.5" clutch, 5.2 Magnum, manual steering. Thinking dd9 may work with hyd. clutch.
 

Blackhatguy

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Just got the driveshaft back after work today, I had to shorten it for the long tail shaft transmission. Got it put in, and took it for a short drive, just a shake down run really. It still needs tuned up, and I have to do something about the speedometer cable that isn't hooked up to anything, just rattling and making a bunch of noise... But it runs!
 

nearpar

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So you have a power steering car and you made the headers work as well without cutting up you car ? Those look like shorties what were they out of ?
 

Blackhatguy

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They are for my car, just one without power steering.
 

nearpar

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So which timing cover did you go with the pre 69 or post ? The pulleys line up with either set up as long as they are not mixed ?

I've decided to make a bona fide, dedicated post about my upcoming engine swap, for which this forum has already been immensely helpful. not only for information, but in my hunt for parts as well. My main problem though, is that all of the information I needed to know I had to hunt through hundreds of threads to learn. I wanted to try and consolidate as much as I can here in this thread to not only look back on, but possibly help anyone else by saving them some time hunting. A lot of what I am about to post may seem painfully obvious, but I was a complete newbie just a few months ago and so it was painfully obscure to me at the time. So without further Ado, here goes.

I'm working with a 1964 Dodge Dart, two-door hardtop.
Slant 6 engine, 904 auto transmission, push button shift, 7 1/4 rear end.

Engine I'm working with is a 2001 5.9 Magnum. I am unsure as to exactly which vehicle it came from, the oil grommet on the valve cover leads me to think it may have come from a van though. That may be a problem finding an oil cap, we will see.

For starters, if you have a Magnum engine you are stuck with Magnum heads, unless you want to spend some money on machine work to drill out the oil galleys. This is because Magnum engines were redesigned from the LA engines to oil through the push rods rather than the shaft style rocker.
The upside to the Magnum head is that it is to the Mopar small block as the vortec head is to the Chevy, one of the best flowing production heads you can get for that motor.
The downside is, those same production heads are prone to cracking in that little space between the intake and exhaust valve. There are a few beefier aftermarket replacements but that is still extra money.
The Magnum block has a slightly different deck height than the LA engine. It is a little bit lower, and LA pistons will come out the top. You have two options here, use the original Magnum style pistons and deck the block to get the proper quench height, or use LA pistons which will stick up past the deck a little bit. You can then use a .050 head gasket to keep the head a safe distance away and you will wind up with .032 quench height.
The Magnum engine also takes a roller cam, and that is going to cost a little bit more, but it's worth it because of the much higher ramp rate. That gives you more area under the curve for valve lift for a given duration, meaning the power of a bigger cam than the numbers would suggest.
You will need to decide now if you are going to run an electric fuel pump or mechanical, because if you are going to run a mechanical then you need a long snout cam and fuel pump eccentric.
The intake manifold bolts are at a different angle, so you will need a magnum specific intake manifold for it if you are going to carburate it.
There are three different timing covers you can use, and it is at this point you will have to decide before you even start your build whether or not you want to go with the serpentine system that comes with the 5.9, or if you are going with the older V belt design. Unless you are looking for the authentic look of period correct V belts, keeping all of the accessories off of the Magnum donor vehicle will help you immensely. In that case, keep the magnum timing cover and water pump. You will have to have an external electric fuel pump for it.
If you are going to do the V belt set up, you are going to have to get one of two other timing covers. Pre 69, the timing cover has the timing marks on the passenger side and the matching water pump has it's suction on the driver side. Post 69 that is reversed. This will be important because that affects accessory bracket fitment and radiator selection. You cannot mix and match from either side of that date. Pulleys will not line up.
If you are adding a larger radiator 3 cores or larger and hoping to stay with a mechanical fan, you will likely see your fan clutch hit the radiator. A good solution is a fan clutch from a jaguar, and a universal clutch fan. See picture below.
The 5.9 Magnum is an externally balanced engine and has a 5.9 Magnum specific harmonic balancer. If you are doing V belt accessories, you will need to look for an earlier model 5.9 harmonic balancer that is two piece without the pulley permanently attached. Doorman makes it. This will allow you to bolt on the V belt pulley. There may be one hole that does not quite line up with the rest, just use a file to slightly enlarge the hole so the bolt will go in to the balancer.
Reuse the flexplate or flywheel that came with the engine, make sure that the flexplate is weighted so that you can use a neutral balance converter.
1960 to 1967 the torque converter pilot has a smaller shaft than 1968 and up. You will need a bushing to take up the slack.
If you are converting a model with a slant 6, the Transmissions do not share bolt patterns with the V8 and you will need another.
Also, if you plan to keep the push buttons you will need a 64 or 65. If you get a 65, you will need to install a 64 valve body. You can use your slant 6 transmission as a donor.
The first two gears in the slant 6 are lower and you can swap those into the V8 transmission as well to make up for highway gears if you want to run them.
The output shaft on the early transmissions do not have a traditional yoke and U-joint, they have a trunnion. Having a transmission shop swap that out for a more contemporary output shaft will help you find replacement parts more easily in the future.
The lowest price I have found on headers so far has been with Sanderson model DD9. They are shorty headers, and only specced for early A bodies with auto transmission. They are only available with 1.5 inch primaries, but they fit tight with minimal fuss.
Your fuel delivery line will need to be upsized, the one provided with a slant 6 is not going to provide enough fuel for anything over 250 horsepower. You will burn up your electric pumps trying.
The 5.9 block has kept LA style engine mount bosses, but they have been slightly modified. There are two holes up front, and one hole in the back. You can use 318/273 mounts, but you will have to add a half inch spacer on the driver side back bolt to take up some slack, and on the passenger side you will have to weld a new tab on to the front of the motor mount because it only has one bolt hole there.
You will need a 360 LA car style oil pan and pickup. You will also need a new dipstick, the one for the truck pan will not work in the car pan.
You can reuse the Magnum starter, in fact that is required for use with headers because they are so much smaller than the old style.
You will not be able to reuse the Magnum distributor, but an LA distributor will drop right in. There are a few companies making GM style HEI distributors. That is what I am using. They take GM replacement components and a 4 pin ignition module.
The spark plug wire set will be the same 5.9 said you would have bought for the donor vehicle.
If you are reusing the Magnum distributor hold down clamp, you may have to grind a little bit off of the inside where it contacts the shaft of the distributor in order to get the bolt in the hole.
There are two different thicknesses of rubber motor mounts, the thinner one lets the motor sit down a little bit lower for better hood clearance and firewall clearance to distributor, but if your car came with a slant 6 you will want the taller one so your oil pan will clear the center link on your steering.
V8 cars came with thicker torsion bars and one more leaf in the rear springs. That is so the front can carry the extra hundred pounds for the engine, and the rear can handle the extra torque without collapsing the springs.
The 7.25 rear end is marginal past 200 horsepower, seriously consider upgrading. I'm going with a Ford 8.8 personally, sacrilegious I know but they are plentiful, as are aftermarket parts. And they are every bit as strong as the lauded mopar 8.75.
The Slant six throttle linkage is incompatible with V8 carburetor orientation. So is the pedal. Those will need to be swapped out for a V8 pedal and cable linkage. Also, a Mopar specific kickdown cable linkage will be needed.
Stepping over 350 lb of torque, consider subframe connectors.

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Blackhatguy

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I went with the pre 69 to look a little more correct, and yes the pulleys lined up great with only minor shimming on the crank pulley.

So which timing cover did you go with the pre 69 or post ? The pulleys line up with either set up as long as they are not mixed ?
 

1995dak

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Glad you got it going. Like a whole new car I bet. What part of Texas are you in?
 

1995dak

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Cool. I know it well. Born and raised in Santa Fe. No burnout videos? :steering:
 

Blackhatguy

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Cool. I know it well. Born and raised in Santa Fe. No burnout videos? :steering:
The ball and trunnion U-joint is worn out, bad vibration and getting worse. Also, it's still got the 7 1/4 open, so the burnout is going to have to wait until my new driveshaft and rear end comes in... But trust me it'll happen!
 

Blackhatguy

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I got a conversion driveshaft made to replace the ball and trunion, trying to eliminate some pesky lingering vibration. The vibration is still there, but I think it has to do with my rear end. Anyway, I've been trying to take it easy on the car since I am afraid of blowing up the rear end before I have the other one built.

That being said, last Saturday I couldn't help myself. Had an Acura RSX pull up next to me leading up to a merge lane. When I slowed down he slowed down obviously wanting to play... so at 30 miles an hour I punched it and didn't stop spinning tires until my GPS speedometer said 70. I missed my turn, and scared the crap out of my daughter, but Lord that was fun!
 
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