On the cusp of A-body ownership: Help me with a 1969 Valiant!

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cudak888

cudak888

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I come to you from the dark side, as the owner of a '71 and '72 Mustang (feel free to read up on the '71 here: http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-cudak888-1971-m-code-soylent-green-8-30-14-shrinking-disc-time and the '72 here: http://www.7173mustangs.com/thread-cudak888-1972-q-code-614-hso-junker-to-eleanor).

In searching around for a new daily driver, I wound up visiting a local used car dive that sells nothing but decommissioned Ford CVPI P71's and ex-Florida Highway Patrol Chargers (interesting stuff given 30 years time, no doubt). What brought me in in wasn't any of this though - in the corner of the lot, I spotted a 4-door, 1969 Valiant (not to mention a completely rotted, '66 Coronet 440).

I had to pay attention to the little A-body. Quite frankly, I'm serious about it. Problem is the usual: Overpriced. It's $5k. From what I've seen, this is over-the-top money for any 4-door Valiant with a 170 - even by eBay standards. However, this is the score:
  • The Valiant has been repainted once, in a crappy, single-stage dull gold.
  • However, under this dull gold is a completely straight and solid body. I see no waviness or evidence of filler - ANYWHERE. This includes behind the driprail where the roof skin is welded to the unibody.
  • Chassis was undercoated long ago, and is completely rot free; clean as a whistle. Zero pan rot, no patches.
  • Two dime-sized surface rust spots at the rear window corners. Not the usual heavy rot and a hole, just surface.
  • Perfect grill - never seen a dent.
  • Haven't seen in the trunk or under the hood, but the oil pan is clean. Front end suspension is clean.
  • Interior has not been re-done and is 100% showroom flawless.
  • Original 13" wheels w/trim rings and Mopar dog dish hubcaps. Unfortunately then, 4-wheel drum with a single master cylinder and no vacuum assist. Given that the dog dish/trim ring combo isn't in the brochure, would this possibly indicate an ex-fleet vehicle?
  • Now - though I never believe any 5-digit odometer claims anymore, as it's beginning to be a moot point with older vehicles - the owner claims that the 22k miles (and change) on the odometer are original. In a strange turn of events (I'm ultra-cynical), I believe it.
I should be able to get some photos of it soon. Hasn't been on the lot for a while as one of the local TV stations have been - supposedly - filming a telenovela with it.

Thoughts? Opinions? Wrong sub-forum? #-o

Best,

-Kurt
 
I couldn't resist! :toothy8:

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Duel shot!

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-Kurt
 
I like it. So much that if I were in that market I might give 2G or so.
 
thats a killer sleeper waiting to be born. 360. 727. 8.75rearend. 355-391 gear. ss springs some disk brakes. build it right and you have a 12 sec street car for under 10 grand. nice car. have fun building it.
 
jimpys toy said:
thats a killer sleeper waiting to be born. 360. 727. 8.75rearend. 355-391 gear. ss springs some disk brakes. build it right and you have a 12 sec street car for under 10 grand. nice car. have fun building it.
Click to expand...

Right now, the over-powered power steering is enough to scare me.

Couldn't even check my mirrors (RH mirror is useless!) without wandering way out of the lane. Doesn't help that the rear view keeps flopping around too.

Oh, and the muffler has a huge hole in it.

And I have an intermittent no-spark condition.

BUCKET LIST TIME!

-Kurt
 
It's even clean where you can't see it. One of my justifications for paying twice what one of these things are worth is that the cowl is solid. As the owner of a '71 Mustang, I know just what it takes to drill out the spotwelds and MIG a new cowl in. Eugh.

Before I bought it, I test drove it in pouring rain. Not a single leak onto those rubber floormats. Puts a smile on my face!

Now to find out why I'm getting cranking with no spark at random, despite a known good resistor. Betting it's the ignition switch. Mopar master tech next door lent me his copy of the '69 shop manual. As much as I like the Mopar shop manuals, the '69 manual is much less detailed in diagnosis procedures than I had hoped - my '98 B-series van shop manuals are much better in that respect (but in every other respect is almost identical to the manual 30 years its senior).

-Kurt
 
Welcome!
What's your goal with this car? It's a great find! I drive a '72 Valiant 4dr with 225 slant daily, very comfy and practical and always gets admired, yes a 4dr Valiant!....just love the car!
 
Man that thing looks CLEAN! I'd daily that thing as it sits everyday!(except winter)
 
You bought a new car!

Great car - you could drive it for the next 30 years

- if you keep clean oil in it!

Best rated car for over 20 years!

Have fun, I really loved my good ol Valiants.

Bcudamatt
 
Your having problems with power steering - that frickin car doesnt need power steering. If you are oversteering just disconnect the hoses - you have the lightest car ever made with the best power steering ever made ???? - are you sure it has power steering??? It may not have?? Let me check the pics?? -- Theres no way that there is power steering on that car!! It's just good ol manual steering on a Valiant - Control Yourself!!

Have Fun and enjoy driving one of the best cars ever made.

Bcudamatt.
 
Bcudamatt said:
are you sure it has power steering??? It may not have?? Let me check the pics?? -- Theres no way that there is power steering on that car!! It's just good ol manual steering on a Valiant - Control Yourself!!
Bcudamatt.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it does, you can see the pressure line in the last picture.
 
I just made quite the discovery - only the left side of the car has been repainted. Left fender, both doors, rocker, and quarter. The hood, trunk, cowl/filler panel, and right side haven't been touched.

That's 45-year old single-stage factory paint, and it's held up pretty darn well!

I was rather surprised to find - upon running a VIN search - that this car was part of Ted Vernon's (South Beach Classics) stock about 720 miles prior to it working its way to me. Given the mixed bag of stuff that's on his lot, I'm surprised this made it there (and out alive).

Ironically enough, the lot where it was sold is directly across the street from a Wendy's which sits on the former lot of the Ford dealership that sold my '71 Mustang Mach 1 originally. Guess I buy all my cars in one spot.

EDIT: FYI, for those following the no-spark condition, these were the results of my testing today:

Ignition lock cylinder/switch: Continuity on IGN1 and IGN2 at RUN and START
Run circuit (brown) @ ballast resistor: 10.3v @ START, 7v @ RUN
Start circuit (blue) @ ballast resistor: 10v @ START, 8v @ RUN
Start circuit (blue) at coil +: 7v @ START, 10v @ RUN
Coil primary resistance: 1.8 ohms
Coil secondary resistance: 9K ohms

Strangely enough, my timing light IS blinking for Cylinder #1 on crank, but is doing so very faintly.

Valleyant said:
Welcome!
What's your goal with this car? It's a great find! I drive a '72 Valiant 4dr with 225 slant daily, very comfy and practical and always gets admired, yes a 4dr Valiant!....just love the car!
Click to expand...

What's my goal? Drive it, enjoy it, and try to keep it as original as possible.

My only concession to originality - down the road - may be to add discs in front, and a Grand Cherokee drum rear end - thus going to LBP throughout the car.

That, and I'm considering going to a Carter BBS over the existing Holley 1920. It's a question of whether I rebuild the 1920 or get a nice BBS from Omar at Just Carburetors down here (

This would require going up to stock-appearing 14x6" wheels though, and with Mopar originals being next to impossible to find in this town, 1971-73 Mustang 14x6" wheels (non-Mach, which would be 14x7) would be the quickest and closest option - and still look original.

-Kurt
 
Welcome to the site, that's a nice car that you've got there.
I have a couple of '69 Valiants myself.
DO NOT disconnect the power steering and drive it! Can you say ''totally unsafe'' or ''liable'' if you get into an accident?
Mopar power steering systems are known for their light feel and twitchiness.
You can shim the relief valve on the steering pump to decrease the over assisted feeling that you have, just google Mopar Action Magazine and then go to the tech archive section and do a search. It's very easy.
Same place for a comprehensive set of articles on how to do a bbp disc brake swap properly. The article is called ''Disco-Tech''.
I like your idea to convert it to bbp front disc brakes, the stock 9'' brakes are terrible.
It should be easy to find Mopar wheels for it, they made millions of them. (Literally).
Don't cut up the radio delete plate to install a stereo, they are hard to find in good shape, and oh, the passenger side mirror isn't factory, that might be why it's giving you trouble.
I hope this helps.
 
Dartnut said:
Welcome to the site, that's a nice car that you've got there.
I have a couple of '69 Valiants myself.
DO NOT disconnect the power steering and drive it! Can you say ''totally unsafe'' or ''liable'' if you get into an accident?
Mopar power steering systems are known for their light feel and twitchiness.
You can shim the relief valve on the steering pump to decrease the over assisted feeling that you have, just google Mopar Action Magazine and then go to the tech archive section and do a search. It's very easy.
Same place for a comprehensive set of articles on how to do a bbp disc brake swap properly. The article is called ''Disco-Tech''.
I like your idea to convert it to bbp front disc brakes, the stock 9'' brakes are terrible.
It should be easy to find Mopar wheels for it, they made millions of them. (Literally).
Don't cut up the radio delete plate to install a stereo, they are hard to find in good shape, and oh, the passenger side mirror isn't factory, that might be why it's giving you trouble.
I hope this helps.
Click to expand...

I figured the P/S modification was a kludge, but it's the least of my concerns right now. I'll keep the shim in mind.

Ironically, I found the steering much scarier on the (partial) drive home than the brake feel. The distance between the gas pedal and the brake also scared the crap out of me at first, when I realized how easy it was for my big foot to pop off the edge of the brake and fly onto the gas. My braking motions changed entirely after that - now I move my whole leg to brake.

Mopar steel 14x6" rims? What would they have come on? Unless a Chrysler 5th Avenue M-body has a set, I don't expect to have much luck. Most junkyards that have old cars in this town weld the steel wheels together to prop the cars up in the yard. I've even considered buying one of these things out from under a car - it was a 14x7" steel Mustang rim; bit hard to come by and it hadn't been bent - and grinding the other wheel off.

She's staying radioless. I yanked the radio out of my '71 Mustang and put a factory blank-out plate on that. Radios are for listening in your house, cars are for driving.

If the passenger mirror isn't factory, neither is the driver's. They don't sit right on the doors at all to begin with.

-Kurt
 
Consider swapping a rear diff from an explorer with discs. It's a very popular A body swap.
 
Gentlemen - I'm pleased to report that the starting issue was thanks to the float on the 1920 carburetor having been set 1/4" too low. Dribbling a bit of fresh fuel in the intake manifold caused the engine to start up immediately.

That said, I picked up a few parts to freshen up the carb from Omar at Just Carburetors today, and finished the rebuild this afternoon. The fuel in the line from the fuel pump is not only bad, but I found sediment in it. I pumped it out, and siphoned the tank and fuel line dry this evening with an aftermarket electric fuel pump.

I'll try siphoning directly from the tank tomorrow, replace the lines, fill the tank, do an oil change (smells like fuel thanks to the bad gas flooding it) and see how she does!

-Kurt
 
Sorry about the Power Steering glib. Just something I did myself for many years.

If you wonder about the miles do this: check for wear - foot pedals are the first - if worn then compare that to the odometer. Does the body have road rash - rock chips, paint rash, glass rash - just from regular road wear. Oil or grease smears - there isn't an engine ever built that hasn't leaked oil and smeared oil somewhere - oil collects dust. Just look for regular wear wherever a vehicle would normally obtain the type of wear and tear that humans or road conditions would occur. The less the better - you should be able to see this plainly on close examination. If components do not match from one area to another beware! Some components may have been replaced to improve the appearance and try to improve your estimation of the condition of the item.
To my eye in these pics it looks like a real item. Just check the details.
And certainly use your own judgement as to what you want to invest.

.....

This car looks to be so original you should be careful with any modifications. You may have the last of the dinosaurs. Looks beautiful to me.

You can always put an under dash radio in if wanted.

Thanks,
Bcudamatt
 
cudak888 said:
I figured the P/S modification was a kludge, but it's the least of my concerns right now. I'll keep the shim in mind.

Ironically, I found the steering much scarier on the (partial) drive home than the brake feel. The distance between the gas pedal and the brake also scared the crap out of me at first, when I realized how easy it was for my big foot to pop off the edge of the brake and fly onto the gas. My braking motions changed entirely after that - now I move my whole leg to brake.

Mopar steel 14x6" rims? What would they have come on? Unless a Chrysler 5th Avenue M-body has a set, I don't expect to have much luck. Most junkyards that have old cars in this town weld the steel wheels together to prop the cars up in the yard. I've even considered buying one of these things out from under a car - it was a 14x7" steel Mustang rim; bit hard to come by and it hadn't been bent - and grinding the other wheel off.

She's staying radioless. I yanked the radio out of my '71 Mustang and put a factory blank-out plate on that. Radios are for listening in your house, cars are for driving.

If the passenger mirror isn't factory, neither is the driver's. They don't sit right on the doors at all to begin with.

-Kurt
Click to expand...

Cudos on keeping the radio delete plate, all of the music is under the hood is my saying.....
Too bad you don't live closer to me, the 14 by 6 bbp steel wheels are still pretty plentiful here.
And as for the brake pedal height, you can either shorten the push rod 1/2'' or so, or install an adjustable one when you do the brake upgrade in the future. BTW, on an automatic, i always use my left foot for the braking anyway.
Correct style mirrors are pretty easy to come by when you decide to change them out.
 
Bcudamatt said:
If you wonder about the miles do this: check for wear - foot pedals are the first - if worn then compare that to the odometer. Does the body have road rash - rock chips, paint rash, glass rash - just from regular road wear. Oil or grease smears - there isn't an engine ever built that hasn't leaked oil and smeared oil somewhere - oil collects dust.
Click to expand...

Matt, the brake pedal hardly has any wear; as does little of the rest.

My post about the paint got eaten by the forum, but though there are nicks and scrapes and touchups throughout, only the left side of the car was ever repainted (up to the quarter seam). Slight overspray on the window rubber.

The other 3/4 of the car - especially what you see in these photos - is absolutely 100% original. And that includes what appears to be a perfectly intact cowl that does not leak.

As much as this sounds like hooey with the numerous eBay and Craigslist scam artists out there claiming low mileage on 100k cars, I am convinced this little guy hasn't seen anything over 22k miles in its life.

That said, the engine block lost all its blue paint on the left side - which I find odd, given the condition of the rest - but I haven't found an explanation for that. The exhaust is also rusted beyond recognition, but the 4" diameter hole in the muffler and rear tailpipe pretty much explain themselves from sitting.

Even the original spare tire is sitting mounted to the rim in the trunk - though worn unevenly and unusable.

I'll get some more photos today.

-Kurt
 
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