others opinion needed.....family issues

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trudysduster

trudysduster

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I am going to reach out to you guys on an issue my wife and I am dealing with here and get some opinions from some of you. We have 2 sons. Chris who is 29 and Tyler who is 24. Tyler is still at home and he is the one who does the Mopars we have done and Chris has been away from home for 5 years now. I have to say that both of my sons were raised with respect and taught to respect others.
Problem we are having is that Chris got involved with a girl shortly after leaving home and it seemed that no longer he got involved with her, he changed. Dramatically. The girl does not respect her mom and dad growing up as the mother cheated on the dad and the dad was on drugs. Cannot say that there is any reflection on her but that was the circumstances I was told. Problem is if she didn't know how to respect her parents, she probably doesn't know how to respect period. Before we were even introduced to this girl she started to dis-respect my wife.
My wife just happened to call her out of the blue one day to find out where Chris was as we hadn't heard from him in a week and she told my wife that she didn't want to talk to her and she slammed the phone down on my wife. Chris and her apparently was living together.
As time went on we finally met her and right off the bat we knew something wasn't normal with this girl. Needless to say the road was rocky from the start. I don't take kindly to people dis-respecting my wife. The dis-respect kept on for the next 2 years to the point I told my son that he should have had a discussion with her and stopped this as this was is parents and I didn't think it was appropriate and we were not going to allow it.
2 years ago they got married and my wife and I along with Tyler refused to attend the wedding. I just couldn't do it. More time went by and they were living with her mom and step dad and all hell broke loose at their house and they ended up buying a house 1 mile down the road from us. I still didn't like her but they needed help so I sucked it up and moved them in and the day I was moving them in she did it again. Started running her mouth and going off on me for something stupid. I ignored it and a couple of months later, right in the middle of last winter he wanted to do some wiring in the living room, tore out the ceiling and walls not knowing what he was doing and then called me. I need help. I was in the middle of doing the 69 Valiant. I dropped what I was doing and spent the next 2 months putting their house back together for them and making all the changes they wanted. Everything was going kinda good as they needed me.
We scheduled the trip to Mississippi for "Cruising the Coast " in October and decided to take them with us and see if that wouldn't open up some doors. In the middle of the vacation while we were in New Orleans we were leaving the French Quarters and she unleashed on me again. He got lost and I being a trucker for 30 years knew where I was but she depended on the phone for directions. Vacation ruined.
Since we got home there has been several occasions where we tried to sit down and talk but ended up in a fight with her over her dis respect. It has gotten to the point where she has brought him down to her level and he has started with the dis-respect of my wife and I. This I will not tolerate from my children. He suggested that the way to fix this was to just keep her away from us. I agreed. He has since changed his tune. He will not talk to me on the phone. He will not talk to me in person. Last time we talked on the phone, he hung up on me. He didn't like the part where I told him to grow up and be a man.
My wife told him that we were done with her and didn't want to be around her anymore due to the disrespect. He tells us that the only way now that he will be in our life is if we include her too. I explained to him that he is the one who married her and she was his problem. I told him that no way will she be accepted unless she learns to respect us for who we are. Just because she don't respect her parents doesn't mean she will get away with disrespecting his. What it has come down to is we had to tell him that he cannot push her down our throats just because she is married to him. I had to tell him yesterday that as of now until he can learn to respect his parents we are done with him also. One of the hardest things I have had to do in life but I guess it is called tough love. I told him that when he learns to respect us like he was taught from a little child to just go on and live his life. When he can do this, let us know and we can put this back together. We love our son more than life but we will not allow him to do this.

My question to you all is :
Are we wrong to not allow him to disrespect his parents.
Are we wrong to expect his wife to show respect to his parents.
Is he wrong by allowing her to disrespect us all the time.
Should we be subjected to her disrespect just because she is married to him.
I am just curious about this in these times we live in. I am 60 years old and in my time, If I had disrespected my mom or dad I would have gotten the **** kicked out of me. I remembered one time and the only time my dad ever backhanded me in the mouth is when I said something out of the way to my mother at the dinner table. He informed me that the next time I did it, he was going to take me out the back door.
I would just like to know if I am wrong here. Thanks,Bill
 
You have to set the limits for respect by enforcing them. If the lines are crossed, call them out right away. If you take it without saying anything, then you are allowing it to happen....

If they don't want to respect you, then cut them off. Next time they tear apart their house and come to you for help, tell them to f*ck off and find someone else to fix it. "A friend in need, is a friend indeed..."

If they can't treat you with respect, then you shouldn't treat them with respect. Treat others as you would like them to treat you.

If you allow them to treat you badly, then they will. You have to set the limits and enforce them. Even if it means pissing them off and keeping away from them. Sooner or later, they will need your help again and have to come back and make peace...
 
yea, you kinda missed your moment a few years ago - you should have come right out with it to them as SOON as you saw the problem- now you've got an up hill battle on your hands. It is time to put your proverbial foot down - confront them with your grievance(s) and let it be known that the BS will no longer be tolerated. You've tried the 'let it be and hope for better' approach and it's not working - time to take the bull by the horns and say something. Put your son on the spot - he knows the difference between right and wrong here - you just need to re-enlighten him.. let him let his conscience be the guide...
 
Yep that's a tough one, but it is without a doubt total BS.
You are right about standing up for your wife (I think you know this well enough)
You F'd up big time when you allowed them to come there.

She would be so gone, and if he followed her then so be it.

My biological Daughter and my Wife got into it one day about something, and my Wife asked her to leave (politely) and my Daughter said "You can't tell me to leave, this is my Dad's house"

BIG mistake, as I escorted her out to her car and told her not to come back unless she could stop her disrespectful attitude toward my Wife.

That was a decade or so ago, and she still won't come over so I guess she can't control it.

So be it, because she's not getting away with disrespecting either one of us.

Sorry, but your Son sucks for allowing it.

Just so you know I have four about that same age and a little older, so I know from experience what A holes they can be.
 
ScampMike said:
yea, you kinda missed your moment a few years ago - you should have come right out with it to them as SOON as you saw the problem- now you've got an up hill battle on your hands. It is time to put your proverbial foot down - confront them with your grievance(s) and let it be known that the BS will no longer be tolerated. You've tried the let it be and hope for better approach and it's not working - time to take the bull by the horns and say something. Put you son on the spot - he knows the difference between right and wrong here - you just need to re-enlighten him.. let him let his conscience be the guide...
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I totally agree. my kids learned an early ( very early) right, wrong. you respect your elders, family. I learned the same respect at MY early age too.

I have seen my daughter try to instill respect when her kids had already spent years NOT having the rules of life enforced, HARD on the child to NOT learn it early on.

I feel sorry for the son and the daughert-in-law. if me, I would sit both them down, and tell them you guys made a mistake NOT taking care of the situation early on, but that there are some rules if life everyone should adhere to. rule number one is you respect your parents and in laws, .... if you cannot get along with them, stay away and keep your opinion to yourself. I would tell the son you will always love him, BUT if his wife cannot learn to be civil, then she needs to stay away, and HE is STILL required to have the respect and manners he was taught to have. period. suck it up and be a MAN!!!
 
thanks for the responses. I kinda thought I was right on this but I wanted to give my son every chance to change this but it didn't happen. My wife found out that where she works has given her the opportunity to move to their Corporate location in Atlanta in a management position. If that happens, they will probably not have any relationship with us. there is really nothing keeping us here. We have a lot on our plates right now.
 
barbee6043, we have done that. He was taught to respect his elders and he did up until he met her at age of 24. From then on he has just been brought down to her level and thinks it is ok to disrespect us. I have had these sit down discussions 3 different times now. it lasts about 6 months and then we are at it again. I don't know any other way than to just cut them loose. Maybe someday he will become a man and realize being a man is more than laying down in a bed with a girl. The kicker about this whole thing that really scares me is that she is a " Child Behavioral Therapist". She treats children that has been abused and in trouble with the law and stuff. I wouldn't let her talk to my child.
 
I really feel for you. if you have the chance, I would simply try to tell your son this:

life is short, you, his father, won't be in this world forever. tell him to think about it.

I would ALSO explain that people marry but it doesn't always work out. hopefully they love e ach other and will a happy forever couple. BUT, if it doesn't, best to NOT have kids! I guess if I was him. I would have to wonder if this woman is the person he wants to be the mother of his children. he is young.

if the move happens, that might turn out to be best for all? good luck. wish I could fix it all.
 
Will confess....didn't read your whole post. Didn't have to....not to pick up on the fact that you are,treating him the same way my parents treated me....which resulted in me despising them. To the point I didn't speak to them for 7 years prior to their passing. And not going to their funerals. And having the attitude that....no reason to hurry "back home"....they ain't going anywhere.
 
Bill you can only do so much. Seems to me you have gone far beyond that. Time to kick the kids loose and let them live, so to speak. "Maybe one day" they will realize.
 
I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this. You are not incorrect in setting boundaries of expected behavior as long as those boundaries are based on love and not pride, that can be a very difficult line that only you can establish.
Your son's wife is his problem to deal with. It is he who is called to "leave father and mother and cleave to his wife". If she can learn to respect him,( I doubt she does) the rest of her world will follow.
Some things can be taught, some things must be learned. You may have taught him respect, and those lessons are still in him. He just hasn't the wisdom to implement them into his life. You cannot do more that you've done to make that happen, it is now up to him to gain wisdom.
If the relationship is to be ended, and I certainly hope that is not the case. Do all that is humanly possible to see to it that, that end is not on your account. Forgiveness is not synonymous with being a doormat. but do all you can, in love, to leave the door open to being harmonious. (don't let the sun go down on your anger.) even a relationship that is imperfect is better that one discarded forever.
Pride (and I'm not saying this is the problem) can be a very difficult thing to keep in perspective and setting one's own self interest aside in favor of others can be very heart searching indeed.
My bet is that things are not a bed of roses in his home, and they need to be able to work out their problems, that may require a third party, but that is NOT you!.Give it time and if necessary distance.
I've found that some of those old sayings we know so well have strong roots of truth. "Absents make the heart grow fonder". "Time heals all wounds".
Your love for your son will outweigh the temporary difficulties if handled with grace and truth.
I pray that you all will find peace, and a way to live with one another and enjoy each others company in due time,
 
I think you need to and have drawn your borders.
Don't make him choose between her and you but be clear on what is acceptable behavior.
To me this sounds like your daughter-in-law has serious mental health issues.
And she's dragging your son into it.
There's not a lot you can do except to support and help your son as much as possible.
I would have a casual discussion - not confrontational - to tell them that they will always be welcome but need to be nice and for now leave it at that. Not sure how I would handle it but at some future time I would want to suggest some professional counciling for them.
 
The 'psycho chick' must have a lot of leverage with your son. Too bad he can't see things from a different perspective - his parents.

Refrain from giving them an ultimatum. But stand your ground.
 
might I add sounds like Dr. Dan is a professional, remember i'm not. my daughters admit I am a hardass, but they trust and respect me.

this story has some merit, so read if anyone likes.

has direct correlation of us humans. friend of mine (JIM) is a cowman and horseman, he has always had a big desire to help " troubled" kids. he has a working ranch and also takes in these kids that have had a hard start. he had one kid. that dad was a drunk, beat his mother and him. the kid had a really bad start in life and was taken in my Jim. the kid had very serious problems dealing with anything life threw his way.
Jim was starting a colt one day and the boy was required to be there and help as asked. ( required there for daily life).... this colt was one that had been handled wrong as a weaner by the previous owner,, colt had a really bad attitude. if he wasn't trying to kick, he tried to strike and kick. and run over you to boot.
Jim has started many colts. he is a hand. not the " do it quick method " of years and decades ago. tv calls them " horse whisperers".. TV. through lots of patience, over several days, he was able to get the colt haltered, saddled, and made the first ride. no buck, no run off.

after the boy had watched Jim handle this colt and make that first ride, the told Jim : " you know that colt was mad at the world, JUST LIKE ME!" Jim said, for good reason.

after that first few days of handling and that first saddle, Jim told him, that colt has started his path in life to be a useful animal. he has learned that thru TRUST and RESPECT, there is no reason to be fearful and be made at the world.

this boy said he wanted the same, find respect and trust for those trying to lead and direct and love him. to be a useful member of society.

the 14 year old boy, did learn to repect and trust those worthy and he did grow up to be a person anyone would be proud of. it was a journey, and so did that colt...... it didn't happen all of a sudden for either.... true story..
 
My heart goes out to you n your wife. Children are the most important thing we ever do as grown ups playing the game of life. I have no advice except to seek professional help. Talk to someone that can offer proven solutions. I have no answers but i know you will always miss them if they are not around. Do everything you can and never give up on them.
Rod
 
67Dart273 said:
Time to kick the ADULT loose and let them live, so to speak.
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Fixed....but I agree with this 100%. Worse thing my folks did to me was not accept the fact that I was not their young son anymore, that I had evolved into a man.

I am not a parent, so take what I say with a grain of salt...IF you even bother reading it. I see parents making this mistake constantly...not accepting the fact that their children have grown up. Just because they are doing things you don't agree with doesn't give you the right to attempt to control a 29 year old man.
Buddy I used to work with...sent both daughters to every dance/music class he could afford. Held their hands all thru teenage years. All I heard was how his kids were "raised right" and weren't going to be efups. Oldest one left to go to school, 10 weeks later she was pregnant. Youngest one was in the ER having her stomach pumped on her 21st birthday....
 
I'm no expert, but reading your post, you must have said "disrespect" 30 times. It sounds like you still expect your son to cater to your emotional need to keep being the alpha dog. This is not to say the daughter in law is correct, or a classy person. Just maybe the avenue to resolving this is in the mirror. Also, I've found that when 2 people from different class levels get together, the better person never pulls the lesser person up to his level. The lesser always pulls you down to their level. You can't tell your son who to be with. He's an adult, and has to make his own mistakes. Just when they start being rude, tell them to back off. If you're better off away from them due to your different perspective, that's sadly how it has to be.
 
I have always felt this way, and I made sure my son understood this also. (His mother and I divorced when he was a baby) Your girlfriends/wives may come and go, but your family, is your family forever. I made sure that my son not only showed respect for me and my family, but also his mother, and hers. His first wife, was much the same as this woman is described, and we quite honestly were glad to see her gone. Unfortunately, I now have and 18 year old granddaughter, who acts pretty much the same. In my opinion, anyone who would pick a spouse that would come between them and family, made a very poor decision.
 
when my daughters were children I expected them to respect me as their parent, " person in charge". as they matured into an adult, I still required respect, but I only offered advice, support if the needed it. as they got enough enough to have a " mature" opinion, I listed. when they were children, their opinion did not carry must weight! as they are now 35 and 36 I still expect them to respect me and their mother. I will offer them advice and make the stipulation, take it you you like.
we have to remember there is generally 2 sides to every story, and yes, we have to take an honest "look" at our own side. sometimes not easy to do.
if my grown kids asked me for help, I would do all I could to help. they left the nest when they graduated h s. never did they ask, intend, or want to live under my wing any longer.
I have never had to deal with your problem, but as we know, all we can do as parents is try to instill in them the " respected" ( there goes that word again?)values in life we believe in, honesty, hard work, fairness......what ever.... we all have our own lists....some longer than others?
when that child leaves your direct supervision, all we can do is trust the lessons we taught them will be remembered.
 
I have to say I think that would be tough as a parent. I cant imagine not seeing my son or even being on those kind of terms. With that being said I feel for you and your family. But I think in my opinion you have done everything the way I would have done it. You and your family have taking the correct approach. I see nothing wrong with what you have done. I think in time he will return when he hits his breaking point with her. Family is the most important thing there is! Have faith and he will come back.
 
Respect is earned so her disrespecting here parents...maybe they didn't earn it? Drugs? Weed or Crystal Meth? HUGE difference.....some people say drugs and are all high n mighty over it. Her environment growing up has played a huge part in who she is now.
You have more tolerance than I do for the lack of respect. Now they are married and IMO he is responsible for her and her actions and vice versa.
I have had arguments in the past with my boys...now 24 and 23. I ignore them...hangup or whatever to remove myself from the situation. They both figger it out and eventually reach out to me.
Sounds like the ignore button needs to be hit with the boy. Set rules that he can drop by without her.
The 3 of you skipped his wedding. Thats about as drastic as it gets imo. So all your feelings aren't a secret.

Good luck
 
a quick hijack here in response to barbee6043 - something I have observed to be quite true - there are 3 sides to every story - yours, mine and the truth.
 
Different generations, different perspectives. Treat others, as you would like to be treated.
Kill them with kindness. He's still your son. You'll anguish yourself with regret if you sever the relationship.

Sometimes, we just have to bite our tongues, and politely as we can, and in a loving way, share when you feel the boundary has been crossed. They will respect you when you can show them the same respect for their feelings too.

If all you do is throw the respect word at them, its just going to be a turnoff everytime. He is an adult, so let him deal with the adult situations he's placed himself in, and just show support. Sometimes, that's just merely listening to them, and not saying anything but listening.
 
It's too late to change anything. You've let their unacceptable behavior go on for years.
 
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