Paint and Body Finishing Materials

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Hello All. Just a question where MOST of us have had to bite the bullet. Are there any paint products out there where the primer sealers seal well and won't gas out through your finish product, where the primer surfacers work well and won't make your arm drop off, where the paints look great, and the clears are clear and will hold up and stay clear, and as you may know where I am going, wont break the bank. I will be having slightly over $20K total cost in my 65 Dart restoration with a new engine, rebuilt transmission, rebuilt back end, all new interior, and some new/restored trim and chrome. The point is that the primer sealers, surfacers, paint, clears, and other needed materials for a quality paint job are all now purchased with a price tag exceeding 16% of the cost of the restoration....doing the body and paint myself. I am choosing, currently, to use a quality top of the line product, but, man, there has got to be a less expensive way using products that can be trusted. Any advice on good quality paint supplies that will work out nicely, look good, and stand the test of time. I know the company that I buy from has good stuff, but at a good price that is becoming unaffordable in restoring our classic beauties. Not a rant, just a question? Appreciate it. Old Dart 66
 
Thanks for posing this question. I’m getting close to this point in my project & finding that a coating of paint costs as much as an engine. Like to hear what info this generates.
 
RogerRamRod said:
Thanks for posing this question. I’m getting close to this point in my project & finding that a coating of paint costs as much as an engine. Like to hear what info this generates.[/QUOTE

Indeed, maybe we can, all, find some "valuable" information here. Best on your project. Old Dart 66
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check out "thecoatingstore.com" been using their paint kits for several years now with good results.
 
Summit Racing paint line has served me well over the years. I have both their base/clear and single stage on a couple of my vehicles.
It is real good paint for the price.
 
IMO Paint dulling/fading/sand scratches appearing etc. after completing all goes back to body work/primers used.
Im old shool used to use laquer based everything back in the 80's. Used to use Enamel clear over laquer to minimise dulling.Even the the catalysts in the single stage enamels were almost guaranteed to dull out and require sand/ buffing.
Things are different now. I only use epoxy primers on initial main body work filling and blocksanding. You then can use a simple sealer with usually no worries.
Wish I had that back then.........
Base coat clear coat simplest to use. A monkey could paint it. (except metallic colors)(and 3 stage pearls) As long as the bodywork is passable at the least. Old saying goes, finished paint is only as good as the bodywork prep.....

Dave
 
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mycuda said:
IMO Paint dulling/fading/sand scratches appearing etc. after completing all goes back to body work/primers used.
Im old shool used to use laquer based everything back in the 80's. Used to use Enamel clear over laquer to minimise dulling.Even the the catalysts in the single stage enamels were almost guaranteed to dull out and require sand/ buffing.
Things are different now. I only use epoxy primers on initial main body work filling and blocksanding. You then can use a simple sealer with usually no worries.
Wish I had that back then.........
Base coat clear coat simplest to use. A monkey could paint it. (except metallic colors),As long as the bodywork is passable at the least. Old saying goes, finished paint is only as good as the bodywork prep.....

Dave
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Hey Dave, Yes, block till your arm falls off, then fog it and do it all over again. Absolutely, the quality of the paint job is what workmanship lies underneath the paint. Maybe I am just screaming too loud after writing that check today. Like another member reminded me....The sweetness of a low price is soon forgotten when the product fails. Me too, went through the enamel and lacquer, and, indeed, we do have great products today. I will get over it after I see the final work. But still, someone's got a product that could match the performance of the pricey products, but I'm too old to experiment with experimenting. Just wondering out loud. JJ
 
I usually go to the Nason product line when looking for a mid grade paint. It used to be Dupont's 2nd tier product but I think Duponts sold off the product line. Some of their clears, primers, and epoxies can be found on Ebay. I've used the stuff for years and know what to expect and how it holds up. I prefer a true basecoat that dries so it can be tacked between coats or fixed as compared to some of the lower cost 4:1 basecoats that just sit sticky. Summit and Eastwood paint are re-badged Kirker products. It works but I'm not a big fan.

It's like anything you kinda get what you pay for. Cheaper products shortcut the quality of the resins and/or the UV protection. The paint is only going to hold up as well as what's underneath it so to shortcut on the primers isn't always a good idea.

As far as sealing it, Epoxy primer is the only thing that truly seals it up.
 
I'll preface this by saying I'm not a pro by any means...
Gas bubbles or need to sand excessively are issues with the body guy, not the product. Use the right product for the need. Otherwise it's all feel and muscle effort. Cheap materials will both be harder to work with, and you will need more to do it. That's a given because the reason they're cheaper is there not as much "stuff" in them. Primers shrink more, colors take more to get the right color finish... The lifespan is directly proportional to the work underneath and the storage environment. Again - not the product.
In terms of saving money... using an epoxy sealer to me is not needed. I like doing my work over bare metal, then using an etching high build over it. Then block, then sealer, then color, then clear if it's getting it. I also have used single stage acrylic enamel, blocked that out, and shot a higher end urethane clear over it with great results. You have to have a good supplier to work with to make sure what will work over what, but it can be done and last many years.
 
moper said:
I'll preface this by saying I'm not a pro by any means...
Gas bubbles or need to sand excessively are issues with the body guy, not the product. Use the right product for the need. Otherwise it's all feel and muscle effort. Cheap materials will both be harder to work with, and you will need more to do it. That's a given because the reason they're cheaper is there not as much "stuff" in them. Primers shrink more, colors take more to get the right color finish... The lifespan is directly proportional to the work underneath and the storage environment. Again - not the product.
In terms of saving money... using an epoxy sealer to me is not needed. I like doing my work over bare metal, then using an etching high build over it. Then block, then sealer, then color, then clear if it's getting it. I also have used single stage acrylic enamel, blocked that out, and shot a higher end urethane clear over it with great results. You have to have a good supplier to work with to make sure what will work over what, but it can be done and last many years.
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Agreed, I do block, and block, and block. Using a fog coat in between does show those those waves/lows that may appear after the final. I guess that was my question....a quality surfacer product that will block easily, a sealer thart will seal well without shrinkage, finish products that will hold up. I guess my statement about the joy of the low price is soon forgotten when the product falls. Best to stick with the tried and proven on what I have been using like i said. i may try using a different product while restoring a lessrr project. Thanks for the input. OD66
 
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GeorgeH said:
I usually go to the Nason product line when looking for a mid grade paint. It used to be Dupont's 2nd tier product but I think Duponts sold off the product line. Some of their clears, primers, and epoxies can be found on Ebay. I've used the stuff for years and know what to expect and how it holds up. I prefer a true basecoat that dries so it can be tacked between coats or fixed as compared to some of the lower cost 4:1 basecoats that just sit sticky. Summit and Eastwood paint are re-badged Kirker products. It works but I'm not a big fan.

It's like anything you kinda get what you pay for. Cheaper products shortcut the quality of the resins and/or the UV protection. The paint is only going to hold up as well as what's underneath it so to shortcut on the primers isn't always a good idea.

As far as sealing it, Epoxy primer is the only thing that truly seals it up.
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A suggestion I will look into. Sounds like you have tried these out, and that you are satisfied with the results. I have to say that what I have been using is what I have been using for years, and I have absolutely no complaints about the product other than cost. A friend of mine reminded me that the joy of the low cost is forgotten with the realization of the lesser product to paraphrase him. Basically, you get what you pay for. Sounds like what your saying is sound advice based on longtime experience, I did not know about the relabeling on the companies you mentioned. Quality work deserves quality produccts, but 3 grand plus on paint and supplies got me questioning a bit if there was something out there that could provide a quality job with maybe saving a little bit. These old Mopars deserve the best set of New Clothes thst we can put on them so the next generations can enjoy what we had. Just wondering. Thank you for your input. OD66
 
Old Dart 66 said:
A suggestion I will look into. Sounds like you have tried these out, and that you are satisfied with the results. I have to say that what I have been using is what I have been using for years, and I have absolutely no complaints about the product other than cost. A friend of mine reminded me that the joy of the low cost is forgotten with the realization of the lesser product to paraphrase him. Basically, you get what you pay for. Sounds like what your saying is sound advice based on longtime experience, I did not know about the relabeling on the companies you mentioned. Quality work deserves quality produccts, but 3 grand plus on paint and supplies got me questioning a bit if there was something out there that could provide a quality job with maybe saving a little bit. These old Mopars deserve the best set of New Clothes thst we can put on them so the next generations can enjoy what we had. Just wondering. Thank you for your input. OD66
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What paint line are you using now? Sometimes the best paint for the job is the one you're familliar with.

Moper nailed it, with the lesser paints you usually need more of it.
 
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Not being a pro I've always used mid tier products recommended by pros. Unless you have the day to day experience in the same booth I highly doubt you could tell the difference between products. Being a hobbyist I'll gladly offer advice on welding, sanding, ect, but I have a hard time recommending products. In my life I'll probably paint less than 30 cars. The variables could be weather, compatibility, or just me sucking, and have nothing to do with the products. Listen to the guys that do it to pay the bills.
 
Again - issues with shrinkage - that's the work under the product. If you're using a high build to take care of scratches, no biggie, but understand the cheaper stuff shrinks more so give it time to do it before you block it out. If your surface is smooth to begin with, shrinkage won't show any scratches under it. A trick I've used before is sticking the car in my Cover It garage. On a 50-60 degree day it's 80+ in there and it cures the primer faster. It might be cheaper and faster if you use a spray filler, then spend the time and effort blocking that down...
 
You might want to try Slick Sand, or feather fill. They are like spray bondo. I have used the slick sand. It didn't like the DP90 underneath. Wouldn't set up. Had to scrape it all off. It works fantastic on bare metal. Very easy to sand, but still hard as heck when it sets. Feather fill is supposed to go over DP 90, but still has the same attributes as slick sand. Don't leave it in your gun. It will ruin it. Also make sure you seal leftover product air tight, or it will harden.
 
moper said:
Again - issues with shrinkage - that's the work under the product. If you're using a high build to take care of scratches, no biggie, but understand the cheaper stuff shrinks more so give it time to do it before you block it out. If your surface is smooth to begin with, shrinkage won't show any scratches under it. A trick I've used before is sticking the car in my Cover It garage. On a 50-60 degree day it's 80+ in there and it cures the primer faster. It might be cheaper and faster if you use a spray filler, then spend the time and effort blocking that down...
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All good ideas coming out to help me. Been painting cars for a long time as a hobbyist, and I am using a major company's top of the line product. This company has a great primer surfacer, and it has low to no shrinkage, and it sands like butter, but i get this bad pain in my right hip pocket when i buy it. For sure, quality costs the $$$$. Just looking for ways to cut down the costs. Maybe too old to learn new tricks. An idea i have never tried was to change the heat on the car. Do you ever get blistering when exposing to different heat?Thank you for the response. Old Dart 66
 
furyus2 said:
You might want to try Slick Sand, or feather fill. They are like spray bondo. I have used the slick sand. It didn't like the DP90 underneath. Wouldn't set up. Had to scrape it all off. It works fantastic on bare metal. Very easy to sand, but still hard as heck when it sets. Feather fill is supposed to go over DP 90, but still has the same attributes as slick sand. Don't leave it in your gun. It will ruin it. Also make sure you seal leftover product air tight, or it will harden.
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No, I have not used either product. Less than primer surfacer? Online, or at local paint jobber? Thanks. Old Dart 66
 
It was around $100 a gallon, a few years ago. This stuff uses fiberglas resin hardener. Comes with 4 tubes. If it has a different hardener, walk away. I had a guy at a major car show had printed up a label, and put it on some cheap stuff. I caught him at the next show, and got my money back.
 
furyus2 said:
It was around $100 a gallon, a few years ago. This stuff uses fiberglas resin hardener. Comes with 4 tubes. If it has a different hardener, walk away. I had a guy at a major car show had printed up a label, and put it on some cheap stuff. I caught him at the next show, and got my money back.
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"TRICKS" of the trade? Changing labels? Funny the guy could even be a vendor at the next show. For what I am paying....Lots of $$$$.....at least I know what I am getting. Again, no problems with their product, just that I worked too hard to, it seems sometimes, to give it away. Thanks Old Dart 66
 
Old Dart 66 said:
Do you ever get blistering when exposing to different heat?Thank you for the response. Old Dart 66
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Usually happens from too much primer too fast and putting heat on it or out in the sun. It skins over and traps the sovlents and when they try to come out it blows up.
 
GeorgeH said:
Usually happens from too much primer too fast and putting heat on it or out in the sun. It skins over and traps the sovlents and when they try to come out it blows up.
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Never happened to me, but a few aquaintences asked me why it happened to them. Too heavy with too quick of heat is what research told me and the paint guy too. Like another guy on this thread said....Lots of variables. Old Dart 66
 
Old Dart 66 said:
Never happened to me, but a few aquaintences asked me why it happened to them. Too heavy with too quick of heat is what research told me and the paint guy too. Like another guy on this thread said....Lots of variables. Old Dart 66
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It's primer abuse. LOL It's better and chaper to finish the mudwork out nice and use less primer. Some primers can be brittle when excessive amounts are put on.
 
Old Dart 66 said:
Hello All. Just a question where MOST of us have had to bite the bullet. Are there any paint products out there where the primer sealers seal well and won't gas out through your finish product, where the primer surfacers work well and won't make your arm drop off, where the paints look great, and the clears are clear and will hold up and stay clear, and as you may know where I am going, wont break the bank. I will be having slightly over $20K total cost in my 65 Dart restoration with a new engine, rebuilt transmission, rebuilt back end, all new interior, and some new/restored trim and chrome. The point is that the primer sealers, surfacers, paint, clears, and other needed materials for a quality paint job are all now purchased with a price tag exceeding 16% of the cost of the restoration....doing the body and paint myself. I am choosing, currently, to use a quality top of the line product, but, man, there has got to be a less expensive way using products that can be trusted. Any advice on good quality paint supplies that will work out nicely, look good, and stand the test of time. I know the company that I buy from has good stuff, but at a good price that is becoming unaffordable in restoring our classic beauties. Not a rant, just a question? Appreciate it. Old Dart 66
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I wanted to paint my car and was on a tight budget. I took a body shop class through the local school and went for it. I researched it as much as I could about product and as you could imagine, everyone has an idea whey something is no good to use or the best to use.
I ended up using Valspar primer, paint from the Coatings Store and clear coat from Southern Polyurethane. First car I ever painted and I think it turned out pretty dang nice and have had no issues with the products. I had a painter in the booth with me, to make sure I didn't get too screwed up and he couldn't believe how nice the clear went down. No wet sand, looks great, only sanded down a few "nibs"? in the clear.
Here is a link to my car during and after.
I also used the Coatings Store Hot Rod matte black on the hood.
iCloud Photo Sharing
 
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Back in the day we used to be able to paint acrylic enamels/urethanes/Imron etc. over 220 scratches....LOL
Not kidding, light wetsand and buff....out the door. No sandscratch lifting, that was some strong stuff, no wonder
I have some brain abnormalities.......
 
mycuda said:
Back in the day we used to be able to paint acrylic enamels/urethanes/Imron etc. over 220 scratches....LOL
Not kidding, light wetsand and buff....out the door. No sandscratch lifting, that was some strong stuff, no wonder
I have some brain abnormalities.......
Click to expand...
:lol:
 
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