PISHTAS turbo build

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gunship

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I am thinking about getting a slant six barracuda and am hoping to do a turbo build.
I keep seeing that PISHTAS did a very nice budget turbo build and had a thread about it. Is there anyone that could point me in that direction? I have been searching and searching to no avail. Any other budget turbo builds are appreciated too. I am just trying to get the most out of a stock bottom end. If I get it I will plan on getting work done to the head at least and hopefully the turbo as well.
 
gunship said:
I am thinking about getting a slant six barracuda and am hoping to do a turbo build.
I keep seeing that PISHTAS did a very nice budget turbo build and had a thread about it. Is there anyone that could point me in that direction? I have been searching and searching to no avail. Any other budget turbo builds are appreciated too. I am just trying to get the most out of a stock bottom end. If I get it I will plan on getting work done to the head at least and hopefully the turbo as well.
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If you set some desired parameters such as how much horsepower you would like to end up with, amount of boost, budget, or performance specs you'd like to achieve, it would be a lot easier for someone on here to help you.

It seems like 250 horsepower is pretty easy to get with stock internals and 10 pounds of boost. Beyond that, you can go for a lot more, but as the saying goes; power costs money; how fast do you want to go? A 500 horsepower slant six is not THAT hard to build, but, requires some specialized parts to make it reliable. Things like ARP studs and an O-Ringed cylinder seal at the cylinder head/block interface help ensure longivity.

You pays your money and you takes your choice. Lots of options are available; you just need explore the range... and, make a decision as to which way you want to go with this.

I applaud your choice of a turbocharged slant six. I think it can be the most rewarding choice of engines out there... just my opinion.:color:
 

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I have read about as many builds as I can find and it amazes me the power they are making but on top of that the vast differences in builds between custom parts and then the cheapest parts.
My goals make sense in my head but I am never sure they will transfer well to other people.
I mainly want to get the most out of the motor while not doing anything below the head, hopefully retaining the A\C (that will be chunked in a heartbeat if needed though lol) and be able to drive it almost daily. Just not while working on it of course. I may port the head and will definetly add 360 springs that I already have.
I want to get as much boost as I can with a carb, stock or affordable fuel pump, J-Pipe, eBay or used turbo, an intercooler or water-meth injection
The problems comes in where I don't know much and the second I think I have it I read something different. I would like to be able to tune up and down as well as be able to expand later. I hope this isn't too wide open or too optimistic. It will see alot of street time and some track time, and can't forget the occasional red light engagements.
 
gunship said:
I have read about as many builds as I can find and it amazes me the power they are making but on top of that the vast differences in builds between custom parts and then the cheapest parts.
My goals make sense in my head but I am never sure they will transfer well to other people.
I mainly want to get the most out of the motor while not doing anything below the head, hopefully retaining the A\C (that will be chunked in a heartbeat if needed though lol) and be able to drive it almost daily. Just not while working on it of course. I may port the head and will definetly add 360 springs that I already have.
I want to get as much boost as I can with a carb, stock or affordable fuel pump, J-Pipe, eBay or used turbo, an intercooler or water-meth injection
The problems comes in where I don't know much and the second I think I have it I read something different. I would like to be able to tune up and down as well as be able to expand later. I hope this isn't too wide open or too optimistic. It will see alot of street time and some track time, and can't forget the occasional red light engagements.
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Sounds like fun, but the question still stands; how fast/quick do you want to go (what kind of car will it be in... and at what weight?) Those all have to be answered before you can hope to know what you're going to need.

Think about it and let us know.

It's going to be fun, if you have the patience and persistence to pursue it to its end. Working with stock pistons, rods and crank, and the boost limits (probably 10 pounds) that that kind of a reciprocating assembly will limit you to, will still give you the capability of mid-13's in a 3,000-pound car, I would guess.

That will handle a showroom stock 440, or 340 in the quarter-mile.
 
I will have to think about it because I haven't had a time goal just wanted to build the motor the best I could and have fun with however fast or slow l it was. The car will be a 1968 notchback barracuda, I will most likely put it on some sort of diet but I am not sure how much. Thanks for your answers I will definitely do some thinking on it!
 
gunship said:
I will have to think about it because I haven't had a time goal just wanted to build the motor the best I could and have fun with however fast or slow l it was. The car will be a 1968 notchback barracuda, I will most likely put it on some sort of diet but I am not sure how much. Thanks for your answers I will definitely do some thinking on it!
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That's a good choice of a chassis; those generation 3 a bodies have a wider engine compartment and are a little easier in the fitment department. :happy1:
 
Any advice on lightening it? I think a mid 12 to mid 13 would be a blast if it could be done fairly easily and on my budget even if that means piece by piece over time. I am not sure what the car weighs or how much I can lose so the verdict on weight is still out
 
That build should work perfect I think! I will probably go with a two-barrel and maybe water-meth injection. Is there a reason the max boosts are all over the place. Some people say it is very low (about 6 psi) and others say it can handle higher (16-20) in stock form. Why the vast difference?
 
Well, if you only have one slant six, and one car - it's better to be on the safe side of making it reliable. I have over 3,000 miles on my turbo slant setup running 8 -10psi right now because it's plenty fast for driving around on the street and I feel on the stock assembly it is a safe place to be -it's not leaking oil - the head gasket is still in tact, minimum blowby, etc... It's Intercooled, and through a 2 barrel carb. I like the idea of Rusty's and others' 4 barrel because it allows you that much more tunability and "stages", but 2 barrels will get you there but with less 'options'.

Rusty's build is one I followed to build mine, and some pictures from Pishta, but mainly Rusty, and a lot of other places, but Rusty has kind of nailed the budget way to do it. I wound up about $1,500 into mine but I wound up replacing various components for other things. The fuel pump is a necessity, and there's not going to be a "Cheap" way to do it - looking at $220 for the pump and a reg that will work (minimum). I documented my ENTIRE build, and even listed my failures, and things that I did to try to save money that WILL NOT WORK. So I did all that cheaping out stuff for you. It's a lengthy read right now - at 20 pages or so... start on page 2.

I collected all the parts over about 3 months, drove the car every day, and still do. I just reserved a majority of the big work for one weekend, and did small things through the rest of the time. I have dyno info on there. I'll need to re-dyno it because I have fixed some fuel delivery problems and a big ignition issue that happened during the dyno pull.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=284845&page=2
 
I was planning on boost referencing the fuel pump if that could keep me from.buying another one. I will have a car to drive while this is down and even a spare slant. I will definitely check out your build. Thanks!
 
max boost seems to be speculation at this point. i have yet to see anyone push the stock setup to the point of failure on propose. there are instances of head gaskets letting go in the event of the tune going out of wack momentarily but i havent read about anyone actually throwing a rod or melting a piston yet. it also depends on the application too, dd, race car or somewhere in between. if you only need it to hold together for one run and only most of that one run, it would probably hold 30psi. not gonna be good for much after that but if the head gasket doesnt lift im pretty sure it would hold. now like Serj22 said, a slant will live happily at 10psi indefinitely and the slant is pretty darn happy there. it ive been to 20psi with my setup but i turned it down recently to get the tune a little better. i will be turning it back up very soon and plan on seeing what my current turbo can actually push without falling off. should be close to 30psi. i have a spare slant ready to go so im looking to find what it will actually hold with a good tune.

dont bother boost referencing the stock pump. unless you only plan to run a maximum of 5psi.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=292570 <thats a good thread for various part numbers and general pricing.
 
Everyone I've seen that references the stock pump eventually gives up on it and moves to electric. That's why I just budgeted for electric to begin with.
 
Serj22 said:
Everyone I've seen that references the stock pump eventually gives up on it and moves to electric. That's why I just budgeted for electric to begin with.
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lol. yup. myself included. i have no idea how that guy on allpar got his to run with 16psi of boost. mine gave up at 8. save yourself the trouble and headache of trying to make it work and just run an electric pump and regulator.
 
RustyPlymouth said:
lol. yup. myself included. i have no idea how that guy on allpar got his to run with 16psi of boost. mine gave up at 8. save yourself the trouble and headache of trying to make it work and just run an electric pump and regulator.
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I think there's been lots of really good advice here RE: fuel pumps and regulators on blow-thru systems.

One thing that I have not seen mentioned in this particular thread is the importance of the acquisition of a good wide-band A/F ratio meter. That should be the very first purchase, because it will ultimately become evident that it is absolutely necessary to the build, and you might as well bite the bullet and get it over with

I CANNOT IMAGINE DOING THIS WITHOUT ONE!!!

They will cost anywhere from $200-up. There are several manufacturers who make good ones, so shop around.

I think I paid about $335.00 for mine, but I am pretty bad at finding bargains.

Also, be advised that ALL of the O-2 sensors these meters use, are terminally-allergic to lead in the gas... it will kill their ability to function, in short order, so be sure you only expose those meters to unleaded fuel. Alcohol doesn't seem to hurt them, but the replacement sensors cost around $100-apiece. A word to the wise...

Good luck!!! :cheers:
 
good advice Bill,
most of the gauges run the bosch sensor which can be found for around $50 at autozone..the cheapest place I found them so far. Make sure if you get a af guage it has some logging capability that way you can hit the logger and make your pass..then review it later in case the gauge is not in eye shot.
 
So say I want to do this in stages. Start off with boost gauge and A\F, J-pipe, eBay turbo, 2 barrel carb and a boost referenced pump, and 5-6 pounds of boost. Can I run a stock ignition? Other odds an end parts?

Once I got that sorted out and was ready for the next step would it be reasonable to add water-meth injection, BOV, a timing retard system, modify the carb for boost, and move up to 10-12 pounds? Other odds and ends? Would it be easier to just start here or is working up a good idea?
 
gunship said:
So say I want to do this in stages. Start off with boost gauge and A\F, J-pipe, eBay turbo, 2 barrel carb and a boost referenced pump, and 5-6 pounds of boost. Can I run a stock ignition? Other odds an end parts?

Once I got that sorted out and was ready for the next step would it be reasonable to add water-meth injection, BOV, a timing retard system, modify the carb for boost, and move up to 10-12 pounds? Other odds and ends? Would it be easier to just start here or is working up a good idea?
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you will need a holley 2300 or some other kind of boost friendly carb. do these mods to it, they are easy. http://www.hangar18fabrication.com/blowthru.html i dont think the stock mopar 2bbls will play nice with boost. you will also need a wastegate if the turbo you get doenst have an internal setup. bov is a must, unless you just want to keep buying turbos. stock ignition will work but you will have to lock the mechanical advance in the distributor. its outlined in my build thread. http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54407&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60 that should get you started for low boost. i can tell you in all honesty that once you feel the 5psi that you will want more almost immediately. it might be worth getting some things setup on your car that will function n/a and work your way up to the turbo. a boost ready carb will function normally without boost, the afr gauge will do the same. the fuel pump and regulator will also work n/a.

everything on this list is essential to a performance build. you could get away without the intercooler if you keep the boost low. i knew i was gonna be going all out so i got it out of the way from the get go.

hp valve springs $40 ebay
used holley 600-650 double pumper $50-$150 new $450. setup for blowthrough $550-$750
rebuild kit for carb $35-$45
hangar 18 mods are easy. if you can rebuild a carb you can do these mods. seems like a lot when you first read through it but its really easy when you break it down and start doing it.
nitrophyl floats $12 on ebay
spectre 9849 carb hat $65-$100 for high and low profile 98499
aem uego wideband o2 sensor and gauge $170-$230 plug and play, works well
ebay/china t3/t4 turbo kit w/ oil line, bov, wastegate, heat shield and exhaust flange $189. this turbo actually recently took a crap on me. spend some more for your turbo lol. hx35's can be had for around $200 used and will push up to 27psi efficiently. they are hearty and hold up well. you pay for a quality turbo with them not just the name. cxracing has a line of gt35's that are sized right for a slant. they are american engineered and china built. they stand behind their turbos and have a good customer base. their turbos seem to hold up pretty well. you could find a grand national turbo but i think 300hp is just about the limit if not stretching the breath of that particular turbo.
turbo $100-$5k
ebay 31x11x3.5 bar & plate front mount intercooler $98 this actually turned out to be a quality piece. really happy with it.
ebay 3" intercooler piping $109-$150 depending on couplings, bends and diameter
2.25 j pipe $35 jeggs all day.
3/8" exhaust flange that bolts up to the stock manifold $5-$10
t3 flange $10-$20 including gasket
2.5"-3" exhaust adapter $7 not necissary, i just wanted 3" exhaust. lol.
4bbl intake $100-$175
stock exhaust manifold hogged out, free
oil return pipe, scavenged from a dsm turbo i had kits are $30-$60
brake line for oil feed, vacuum, boost referencing $25 for 25' you are not going to use it all but its always nice to have some brake line.
boost/vacuum gauge $15-$40
regulator and electric pump are a must. if you have done your reading you will have come across an article on allpar that states the mechanical pump referenced will work up to 16psi. i found it inadequate for 8psi. going lean with a turbo is bad. real bad.
mallory 4309 and aeromotive 13301 are pretty common and work well. both priced around $100
walbro 255 inline pump with mounting kit $90
felpro 2104 steel reinforced carb to carb hat gasket $10-$20
throw in an extra $100 for various fittings AN,oil feed, just all kinds of random stuff that is overlooked.
if you dont run an internal wastegate you will need an external $60-$300. spend some money on this its what is going to keep your turbo from over spooling and blowing your engine.
bov $20-$300. gonna wanna spend some money on this too. cheap will get you by but you get what you pay for. im currently running a $35 piece and it surges.
 
Thank you everyone! I think this will be a great amount of info to get me started!
 
I second the idea of the 2300. Specifically make sure the one you buy is ACTUALLY a 350 or 500. Other breeds exist as I found out the hard way. I bought a 270 initially, and it is kind of small, but looks the same otherwise.

The reason I went with the 350 and Holley in general is because THE INFORMATION EXISTS, good luck doing it with another carb, you'll be on your own. There's a way to blow-through a 38/38 weber, but I could never find it - just people who show that they DID it - never how. Hangar18 exists, and other info - and all the mods can be done with a hack saw, drill, and dremel. I built my whole setup in the driveway and living room of my appartment - so it's all doable.

Go ahead and do it in stages, that's what I did, but I think saving money on the fuel pump is a bad idea - I'm sorry but you say you want 5, but I can assure you 5psi is not where you will wind up. YOu'll want more, weather you say you do or not. I shot for 5 too - what a lie I told myself...

I recommend running your oil feed, and oil drain first, then just cap them off and tie them out of the way. Then do whatever electrical you want to do. You'll have to mod the dizzy as Rusty mentioned, but once you put it back in a N/A car it will run like crap, so be prepared to deal with that till the turbo shell goes on.

Make sure you use a AFR gauge and sensor - because having one - I realize it would have been a mistake not to have one. It's $150 or so well spent, that's what I paid for mine.
 
RustyPlymouth said:
lol. yup. 5psi is just enough to start the addiction.
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What I find incredible is the dramatic change in available power from no boost, to 10 pounds.

A stock, non-boosted slant six A-body is a lethargic, un-inspired, dangerously slow, vehicle that can barely get out of its own way, much less, someone else's.

Add just TEN pounds of boost to that engine, (with proper jetting and timing,) and a Jeckyl/Hyde transformation occurs that is totally-amazing to witness! All of a sudden, you have a car that will spin two 9" drag slicks on dry pavement, for 30 feet, and feels like another hundred horsepower has just been unleashed. It's surreal...

Makes it a fun car to drive... with no other changes.

I haven't had my car on a dyno, nor a drag strip, yet, but my wastegate is currently set at (only) ten pounds, and I would guess that it is solidly in the 13's (quarter-mile e.t.)

I will try to get some T & T done very soon, and if I can get the chassis sorted out with regard to wheelspin, another five pounds of boost will be tried, and frankly, I can't wait!

I think both Ryan and Tom Wolfe were running 25-28-pounds of boost when they (each) ran those numbers that strongly indicated 500 horsepower, so I have a long way to go...

BUT, the addiction is firmly implanted; I cannot resist... LOL:blob:
 
But you didn't just add boost Bill, a free flowing exhaust (especially with your header) an intake and big four barrel, a cam, increased compression, and a ton of lightening has also helped. A slant six with these mods won't feel to lethargic at all, and then you crammed almost 70% more atmosphere into it.

If you were to use an example of just adding 10psi to an engine, Serj's would be a better example.
 
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