Planning a 440+6 tow vehicle, need a plan

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ssba

ssba

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I got this notion I want to build a 440 six pack engine and vehicle that can be used to tow a small to medium sized vintage Airstream travel trailer. My goal is for both the tow vehicle and the trailer to be the same year. I would like to be able to unhook at the campsite and then use the vehicle for regular duty. Even if it rides rough unloaded.
I have never had a trailer or done much towing so this post is mostly to make sure I don't build something stupid and dangerous.
The reason for the six pack is just because I have it on the shelf already
not being used. It has the mechanically operated secondarys.
There is no street/ strip or going fast ideas in my head here. I wish to take it on some cross country interstate trips.
I do not have the trailer yet and I really am not sure how much trailer I should limit myself to. I have seen them in 17ft up to 31ft after a short
internet search. The shorter trailers can weigh about 2200 lbs from what I have gathered.
Being a A body guy I would like to use a 68 barracuda for this but not sure this is a sound idea even with a towing type cam and a proper gear ratio.
I talked to a fella at a trailer sales and he told me the tounge weight is a small percent of the overall weight compared to the total and not a problem except he couldn't get me a hitch for my
Wanted to see what some of you guys that have done some towing have to say. I really don't have any interest in getting a diesel dually here.
I know it was common to use wagons back in the day.
Can a A body be beefed up enough for such a task with the complete cartool brace kit and the11 3/4 disc brakes?
I have an 18 spline 833 and a Dana 60 axle I plan to use.
Will rear 275 60 15 BF Goodrich radials handle the trailer weight?
I assume the local spring shop can build me some leaf stacks if the xheavy duty springs available won't cut it.
So what do you say? Will the chassis be too light? How much trailer do you think a barracuda can be made to tow safely with the heavy duty A body parts available these days?
 
I think it can be done but like you outlined, it will take some doing.

The one thing I would question would be towing with a unit body passenger car over a full-framed vehicle. I'm sure it's been done but is it right? Not sure.

The 'Cuda and/or A bodies in general were not designed for towing anything of significant weight. Think about it - the 'Cuda was based n a Valiant and marketed as a 'sporty compact'. Those cars originally came equipped with 9-10" drum brakes, 6 cylinder engines and a 904 with highway gears. Would you tow with a Valiant? Even with a big block?

Vehicles designed for towing have the necessary chassis components, like larger frame rails, bigger brakes, engines, more cooling equipment etc. Wagons generally have a longer wheelbase and heavier duty equipment, they were closer to trucks than a Barracuda.

I think engine is not really in question, you can tow with pretty much anything (within reason). The big block will make plenty of torque. The 4 speed will be good, just study your gear/final drive ratios in relationship to the cam and tire size to see if it will stay within a power range necessary for towing.

If it were me, I would find a different vehicle and leave the 'Cuda for something else.
 
You can't run PS on an A-body with a big block...

You will have a nose heavy vehicle with manual steering, and you are going to tow with it....

Good Luck....
 
I did some checking on trailer weights.
They go from the 17" at 2300 lbs
To 30" at 4700 lbs.
A guess on the barracuda would be 3500 lbs.
It would seem if there was a way it would need to be done with trailers on the light end of the scale.
 
The '69 Op Man say's 2000 max as loaded with weight dispersing hitch.
Also has a design.............
hitch.gif
 
You have to look at the GVWR. Even my D100 has a pretty low rating, like under 7,000 lbs. It's a SWB with a 400. The engine is not the issue but since it's a SWB, it's not meant to tow big stuff and if you look at the chassis specs, it's lighter duty than a LWB, even with a 318.

The truck itself probably weighs 3,800-4,000 lbs and with my Duster (approx. 3,100 + trailer approx. 1,500-1,700lbs.) I would be over the GVWR. I plan to tow with it anyway and I think it will be OK but it is pushing it.

The point is, an A body 'Cuda probably has a pretty low GVWR so even with a lighter trailer, you'll still be over the limit. The chassis is really not designed for towing.
 
I hope the trailer weights you looked up were older Airstreams. :D
 
Thanks guys. OK the A body is a bad idea.
On to another vehicle.
I also have a 56 Desoto that weighs in at 4000 lbs.
Has a full frame that is boxed from the factory.
126" wheelbase.
It has a 440, 23 spline 833 and a 4.10 Dana 60.
It would probably need some new springs in the rear.
Probably wouldn't want to put the six pack on a 56.
I have a Longram set up I had plans of using on this car.
I have been looking on line but cannot come up with a formula to calculate how much a vehicle can safely tow. Tells you to go to the owners manual.
My barracuda and desotos manuals don't have this info. Probably because they are old and they are cars.
I am not really worried about weather or not my cars can pull the trailers. As I know what 440s can do with ease. Its the balance and braking I am concerded
about. I don't care to be pushed off a mountain cliff
by a trailer trying to slow it down.
 
They were older trailbeast. It seem the older you go the lighter the get.
 
Yes 56 Desoto. Its a beefy automobile. I will want to
put some mid 70s lmperial disc brakes on the front to replace the factory drums though.

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I would scratch the idea of using a car. mid size to full size wagon, yes.. I suggest an aluminum like airstream, you said you want vintage, I remember all the Yanks hauling *** down I 75 down Ga in the 60's... ha
better choice is 3/4 ton pickup. wish I had a dollar every time I have seen some r etired guy roll his rv trailer going down the interstate pulling the big sucker with a 1/2 t or suv! BUT the salesmans looked it up, and the factory said it is rated to pull his big rv! ha yea.
440 in our rig and pull a trailer? 5 mpg sound good? IMO
 
As far as the gas mileage goes my desire to drive vintage overrides. I am stubborn like that. I only own vintage mopars. Only 440s and hemis. They are just what I have grown to like. No modern daily drivers in my stable.
I don't have a 3/4 ton truck at present. I had a 69 dodge power wagon but the frame was really not all that strong as one would think. It was not boxed like this 56. The 56 frame is much stronger than all the power wagons I have had over the years..
I know the benefit of floater axles you get with a 3/4 ton truck.
I am getting older and don't have the best back these days. I have let go of all my power wagons go to new homes due to very rough ride when using them on pavement.
On dirt they were great that's where they shine.
A two wheel 3/4 ton would be great for towing.
Not sure how they ride. Never had one. Probably nowhere near as comfy as the Desoto.
 
I looked up a 68 3/4 ton two wheel sweptline dodge.
4445 lbs. It may be 1 or 2 hundred lbs heavier than the desoto and two inches longer wheel base.
It would have floater axles and a granny gear transmission.
 
on the pickups. have had a whole herd of them, yes the power wagon in even a 1/2 ton s stiff. right now I hacve a 3500 95 cummins ext cab 2 x 2 , good ride down highway, will kill your back on roughish road. also have 1500 2 x2 81 slant, rides great even on rough road. I have had several 3/4 tons all 2 wd ( any 4 wd will be rough ( to me), .... 3/4 tons are good to pull the correct weight trailer, my choice for sure. I have used a couple 1/2 tons to pull 18 ft bumper pull car trailer, with usually b body. it will pull it, suspension is adequate, ya better have good trailer brakes if need to stop quick, the 1 ton I have hasn't had a working brake control in it in years. BUT, if that 24 ft gooseneck was loaded and I had to stop quick, it would NOT!
personally, I hate any bumper pull trailer, period. if I was to get an older rv trailer I would look for a smaller one, unless just going local shorter trips. they sit high off the ground ( higher center of gravilty),, poor balance for what I have noticed, and if wind hit it on the sides! don't know!!?
all modern gooseneck horse/LS trailers use " rubber ride" drop axles axles, much better ride than springs. I wonder if the people than restore the old airstreams etc, change out the axles?
 
I have seen a couple advertised without the old style leaf springs but I would think most are not modernized. I hadn't considered the side wind and is a good point.
I believe most of the old trailers came with a 2" ball
tounge arrangement.
I can set the car up with a frame mounted Reese receiver fairly easy.
What length or weight would you stay below? Should I keep things to the minimum 17' and 2300 lb. I really appreciate your pulling experience here. I can't go goose neck big on this. I really have only been considering the 2" ball type trailers. They can get bigger than I probably should mess with at 30' and 4700 lbs.
There are many made in I believe 1' increments
between 17' & 30'
 
I believe I will look for something between 17'-22' and hope this is playing it safe.
The old caddy photo seems a bit much to me.
Don't want it to turn out being no fun out on the road.

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my experience has been pulling 4- horse gooseneck horse trailers( steel and then, later years, aluminum) and stock trailers up to maybe 36 ft. (aluminum). I could not begin to tell ya the weight. the steel 6 horse trailers, and with 6 grown horses were heavy!! the all aluminum goose was maybe 40 % lighter than steel. all of these pulled with 1 ton chevy/dodge/I ford diesels and gas.
I like the balance of the 2 pictured. as you know, you must have correct tongue weight for balance. get the axles too much in center and It will not want to track right. seen it.
I would think a 22 ft aluminum trailer will not be a problem, but again don't know the weight or the tow vehicle.
here are some things I have seen over the decades. back in 80's. the local vet buys a jeep ( whatever the suv lookin thing was then), looked pretty light vehicle. he hooked a 2 horse steel "side by side" with 3 ft dressing room, bumper pull... ( length like 17-18 ft ??) trailer weight??? 2 horses weighed 2400#. he probably had only one in there for his daughter. some decent hills around Missouri. he told me runnin down the Interstste with that rig, down a good hill, his A** was totally pucked and had a death grip on the seat covers! I believe him! goes to show what can happen with a light vehicle and heavy trailer/load.....maybe some wind???
late sixties,. father in law, trip to haul couple broodmares off to the stud, 2 lane blacktop, 3 hrs there, in 65 chevy straight six, 1/2 ton pickup, 16 ft bumper pull. we weren't fast, but that was common means. no problem.... nice ride....
Cameron , mo.used to lived right there along interstate, every week some retired old fart pulling a big rv with 1/2 t pickup, rolled the rig, one every week, wind it the sucker , guy running 70 no doubt! NO not winter slick roads! nope.
also, the equalizer hitch was a popular deal for guys using a c ar to pull a 2 horse trailer. must have helped. a good 2 inch ball would be minimum to me. gooseneck balls are 2 5/16 and good steel.
pulling with a car? tires, on rear, they need to be truck rated tires, min 6 ply. rated for the job. not made in china!! ha O K so I run tires most people toss in the garbage but they are 10 plys, just wore out! they get slick on the pickup and THEN they go to the goosenck! ha
I guess some of my memories of people pulling campers (usually an airstream) was from Ga, down I 75. circa the 6o's.... being behind one, watching it fishtail as the Yank ran 75=80 mph trying his best to make it to Fl before he encountered a t rue s ga redneck!? ha
 
We recently bought a 17" travel trailer with a weight of about 2300 lbs. I bought a 2012 Jeep Liberty specifically to tow this trailer. It is rated at towing capacity of 5000 lbs., just remember you need to add in all the weight you are carrying, including gas, passengers, food, clothes, etc. I would suggest using a vehicle like this which is set up for towing and has heavy duty everything if you're serious about doing this right.
 
buy a motor / trans package out of a 67 dodge polara 500 that was rolled do to a vacation trailer getting wippy side ways behind it , that was a 17'' ft trailer . just a thought on cars and trailers . get a d100 , then a shorty . can do the job easily . was a realy nice wreck had a great running hp 383 n 727 in it .
 
oh yea, back in bout 1990 I bought a nice original lil red express truck. ya know, short step bed 1/2 ton, I did haul it full of parts and a car trailer with a 68-70? b body off to some swap as I remember . it was a load especially when I was used to using a 1 t chevy 454 for such. it actually handled the job but was a load suspension wise. the 360 had plenty of power ( enough I should say).
 
ya , well not the thread for this , but i'm currently doing a yard job on my 64 d100 orangy . used up that /6 laodflite , now is the 69 383 hp , 63 727 , got a keep da cables . button shifter p/u . and another toy driver is a 60 d100 rb w/ 6 pack , both shorties and will be set up to pull my hauler trailers .

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yea! I like the pick
ups. being 1/2 t. only thing I can see possible might use rear overload spring or new springs. I say would just depend on tongue weight.
there is local ( 20 mi ) down the road, that builds nothin but mopar pickups. not a high $ place, but he can do body/paint, even builds his own headers. a talented guy. ozark humble too.
 
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