**planning ladder bar set up**

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Mad Dart

Mad Dart

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I will be starting a Mini Tub Ladder bar set up on my 67 Dart. I need some of your guys ideas here to help me along. I checked it all out and it looks straight forward.

The goal here is to do this without cutting out all the sheet metal and leaving the Stock Gas Tank and Tire well in the car and not need to back half it. I will also be doing a Mini Tub, possibly replacing the whole wheel well instead of doing a band and putting it back together.

Here is the kit that I would like to use. I don't know exactly what spring to use or shock length as of yet. This kit has 200lb springs and 5.88 long shocks.

I am not worried about the welding and fabrication aspect part of this job. I just would like to hear from some who have already done it.


Any help would be appreciated along with pictures of your install!

Thanks in advance!


http://www.jegs.com/i/Competition-Engineering/247/2005K10/10001/-1
 
Do a triangulated 4 link with adjustable links you'll get a much better ride and better tuning at the track Plus you wont need all kinds of welding to get it done. That and unless you plan on huge tires you wont need a ladder bar suspension to get her to hook
 
johnparts said:
Do a triangulated 4 link with adjustable links you'll get a much better ride and better tuning at the track Plus you wont need all kinds of welding to get it done. That and unless you plan on huge tires you wont need a ladder bar suspension to get her to hook
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It seems you need ALOT more room for the front brackets etc since they are alot taller than the Ladder Bar set up? I dont want to cut into the floors etc to get this done. I am trying to keep the back seat in the car.
 
Don't even bother then, just move the springs inboard and mini tub it with CalTracs. All that work for a ladder bar is a waste of time and money. If you want traction back half it with a four link and be done with it.
 
Guitar Jones said:
Don't even bother then, just move the springs inboard and mini tub it with CalTracs. All that work for a ladder bar is a waste of time and money. If you want traction back half it with a four link and be done with it.
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I second this. This setup is good for 750 h.p with 10.5" slicks,so minitubbing it will just make more room for even bigger tires.Mopar muscles project car the B3 bomber is a 67 Barracuda with a 750 h.p big block and it uses this setup to run low 10's on used wore out 10.5 slicks.
 
Guitar, I know you LOVE a 4 link that is Cool and obvious!

I have caltrac's on my other car and want to try something different on this one. This is not going to be a FULL race car so Ladder Bars are on the Menu! Plus I want to be done in a few months not in 18 or more. I am going for a certain look also.

I am looking for HELP with this project not a beat down. You can help me spend my money on the next one! :-D
 
It just seems like so much work for a little gain. Why don't you mini tub it, move the springs inboard and use a housing floater instead of the coil over shocks. I don't think you can keep the the stock fuel tank and put coil overs on it too.
 
Guitar,

I usually stare at a project for a while before I start on it and come up with the plan of attack. I believe I can mock up everything and have it in the car in a weekend welded up and done by myself. The Mini Tub is a little more challenging it seems. I will stare at that for a while and then go after it! I also was under the car yesterday and I believe it can be done using Coil overs leaving the tank in place. I will make sure before I go crazy on it. If not then the fuel tank is gone and I will put a fuel cell in the spare tire well.
 
Thanks Tony!

Did you run a fuel cell or leave the stock tank?

Does the cross member hinder muffler placement or being able to dump the exhaust right before the rear axle?
 
Guitar Jones said:
It just seems like so much work for a little gain. Why don't you mini tub it, move the springs inboard and use a housing floater instead of the coil over shocks. I don't think you can keep the the stock fuel tank and put coil overs on it too.
Click to expand...

If he's going ladder bar he should have a floating axle anyways.The axle needs to be able to move somewhat side to side and back and forth. Ladder bar setup pretty well requires him to float it.

Heres what sold me on the caltracs and minitub setup.

The ladder bar system will add more weight. You will need a cross member welded ahead of the lb to locate the fronts of the bars. There are multiple thick plates to weld to the axle,as well as welding and more metal for the floating axle.

Then you have to work out the exhaust around it.And it will probably get more complex with more mods like inboard springs. Plus the ride with a ladder bar will be stiffer.There may also be ground clearance issues.Look out for speedbumps lol!

Ladder bars are proven hi h.p traction makers. But it seems to me that it's also old heavy technology. As a novelty idea or maybe just so you can say you did it yes it's kinda cool.

I personally would go with it if it was a dedicated race car
 
The triangulated 4 link from the guys a rielly motor sports dosen't require any cutting of the sheet metal and you can run the syock tank and tail pipes
 
http://www.reillymotorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16172&cat=263&page=1

Mad Dart, I am using the street linx on my 70 dart as well....

m8i4d5.jpg


1zf0yew.jpg


1zf0yew.jpg


1041fgy.jpg
 
If your still wanting to go with ladder bars jegs has there own kit and it comes with qa1 coilovers. Its about 200 dollars or so less then the comp kit. I bought the kit with the proma star shocks, im having it installed in my amc spirit. Looks almost identical to the comp kit also.
 
Ladder bars work very well. I have personally installed a set on a (now dont beat on me for this) Vega that runs 8.80s on a 26x8.5 et drag. So that is agreed. Ladder bars have some pros and cons.

Pro
Easy to install
Easy to tune
Very effective at making a car hook
Clearance is minimal
Can run a back seat
Lighter than leafsprings
Crossmember adds to structural rigidity.


Con
Doesnt articulate (bad for street driving) axle housing ends up bending/cracking.
Takes up space where your mufflers go, makes exhaust tough.
Rod ends need regular replacement, prone to breakage since they are being used in a way they werent meant to be.

As you can see they are really made for track only but can be used in limited street use. I know many of you guys have run them on the street with no problem but I have seen many cracked rearend housings from using ladder bars on the street. I really think it will be tight with coil overs and a stock tank.

The car will be more consistent with a ladder bar or four link, but I favor the simplicity of the leaf spring/caltrac set up. This also allows more room for exhaust and fuel tank.

I say do what you want its your car! Most of all have fun!
 
Thanks guys for the links and pictures........it is very much appreciated. I am learning alot here! I may switch gears and do the triangulated 4 link set up. It will alleviate all of my exhaust and gas tank worries!

Mopardude318,

That system is interesting to me now! Looks like the exhaust and gas tank issue is not an issue with this kit.

Did you install it yourself??
Are the Lower bars moved in some like doing a spring relocation?
Did you do a MINI TUB also?
How big a tire are you going to run?
Where did you get your Dana at??
Did it come with the brake set up or did you install your own? Million questions..........haaaaaa:-D

Very nice Job!! That Dana looks really good! I will be using an 8 3/4 on mine.
 
by no means am i an expert here, but i would go with a 4 link if your going to change from leafs, otherwise id go with the caltracs or SS springs...ladder bars work no doubt, but like already said i dont think they are a very good idea on a street car...but thats all subjective...my buddy drives a 4000lb big block minitubbed chevelle with a ladder bar rear all over the place (and trust me our roads are BAD) and he hasnt had any problems in a LONG time, but i wouldnt chance it
 
I looked at the Reilly Kit and its twice the cost of the ladder bar or regular 4 link set up!

It looks simple enough to build.

If I end up doing this I would just build my own version of it.
 
The ladder bar system doesnt articulate but making it a floating housing will help with this. Then it has some room to move and wont bind up.
 
Mad Dart said:
Thanks guys for the links and pictures........it is very much appreciated. I am learning alot here! I may switch gears and do the triangulated 4 link set up. It will alleviate all of my exhaust and gas tank worries!

Mopardude318,

That system is interesting to me now! Looks like the exhaust and gas tank issue is not an issue with this kit.

Did you install it yourself??
Are the Lower bars moved in some like doing a spring relocation?
Did you do a MINI TUB also?
How big a tire are you going to run?
Where did you get your Dana at??
Did it come with the brake set up or did you install your own? Million questions..........haaaaaa:-D

Very nice Job!! That Dana looks really good! I will be using an 8 3/4 on mine.
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Hello, and thank you. Yes, I installed it with the help of my friend, or actually, I helped him haha...It is a very good kit, and easy to install. I like it a lot. I thought it was well worth the money. I wanted something different other than leaf springs, and this was the perfect kit for what I wanted, a handling type setup...I'm sure this setup will be able to support a mid 10 sec. car though.

To answer your questions, yes, I did do a spring relocation. Here are some pics:
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29m13er.jpg


dheasy.jpg


v8hk6w.jpg


Yes, we did a mini tub job as well. I got my axle brand new from Strange, the Strange S60! With a Detroit locker and 3.73 gears, with the LPW aluminum diff cover, and the wilwood 12.19 brake kit, with the incorporated parking brake. I had it made to a custom length of 49 5/8".

dnle6h.jpg


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I have 2 sets of wheels I will be running. The first set is the American Racing Torque Thrust 15x10 with 3.75" backspace and a 295/50/15 tire. The second set will be for the street, which is a custom made Torque Thrust II 17x11 with 4.25" backspace and a 315/35/17 tire.
 
Mad Dart said:
I looked at the Reilly Kit and its twice the cost of the ladder bar or regular 4 link set up!

It looks simple enough to build.

If I end up doing this I would just build my own version of it.
Click to expand...
Thats what I'm doing too 1700 is way out of my budget
 
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