Play in steering wheel / adjusting steering box

[pstu]

Just finished putting my front end back together and decided I might as well tighten up the steering box, I want to say I've got about 10* of play in the steering wheel. This is a 1965 Barracuda with power steering. I tightened the adjusting screw 1/8 turns, twice, and it made zero difference. Should I keep going? I've also got a leak where the pitman arm meets the steering box.

 

[AbodyBB]

Determine where the play is actually coming from. If you over tighten the sector shaft(output) you will damage those bearings. They are a small roller bearing.
10 degrees is really close to being in spec. Any bad components in the steering other than the box will cause the tires to wear uneven and have a pull. Issues with the box will make it feel like it floating

 

[pstu]

10 degrees feels like a lot, and I do feel like I'm floating when I drive it. I'll see if I can give it another 1/8 turn and check for binding before I look at replacing it. Can anyone recommend a YT video or guide for replacing one?

 

[AbodyBB]

If you are fine with replacing it then start with a good rebuilt when you install it. They are a higher skill task to replace.
I can tell by your questions that the task isn’t above you. But make sure you get the early box with the smaller sector shaft.

This video doesn’t show how it gets done with the engine in place.
It does show the three bolts to remove and the roll pin on the steering shaft.
The process I did was
From underside pull the pitman arm from the sector shaft. At the same time, unbolt the driver side motor mount and jack up the engine. By leaving the right bolted it tips the engine to the right and makes a good amount of room.
Remove the roll pin and unbolt the column to pull it back.
Finally pull the three bolts that hold the gear to the K frame.
Tip the gear toward the back of the car and it should drop out the bottom.
If my memory is bad (very likely) the gear comes out the top and you have to tip the engine quite a bit to get it to clear and the gear tips toward the front.
Reassemble in the reverse. (All of this is Bull if you have a six, then it pulls right out the top without tipping the motor)
I advise to pull the pitman arm from the box so you aren’t separating ball joints. (Pickle forks play havoc on those joints. the early joint points up on those you can’t use the press type on it until it’s off the gear anyway.
Space in a 65 is tighter than 67-72 stuff I have, but the process should be the same.

 

[pstu]

Thanks for the write up! Can you tell me more about jacking up the engine? Is it safe to jack against the pan? I’ll mention this is a 340. I’d like to swap the mounts at the same time while I’m there.

 

[RustyRatRod]

The adjustment screw is not to remove play from the steering wheel, although sometimes that's a side effect. The reason it's there is to remove play from the sector shaft. If the bearings are still in good shape, the resulting adjustment will "usually" remove some play in the wheel, but not always. Also, there is a procedure for adjustment outlined in the factory service manual. You don't just simply arbitrarily break out the tools and start adjusting it. You can make things much worse and even dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.

 

[Bewy]

^^^^. This. Adjust the bearing end play.

 

[pstu]

The adjustment screw is not to remove play from the steering wheel, although sometimes that's a side effect. The reason it's there is to remove play from the sector shaft. If the bearings are still in good shape, the resulting adjustment will "usually" remove some play in the wheel, but not always. Also, there is a procedure for adjustment outlined in the factory service manual. You don't just simply arbitrarily break out the tools and start adjusting it. You can make things much worse and even dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.

Thank you for this. Reading the manual, (I promise I read it before I posted it, it's starting to make more sense now) you adjust the cross shaft based on torque required to turn the steering wheel, which adjusts the height of the cross shaft and it's tapered teeth against the sector shaft. I don't have a way to measure that, but it doesn't seem to be my issue. The next step in the procedure is to adjust the Worm Shaft Bearing adjustment. I don't have the tool to adjust this, and I intend to learn more before I touch anything else. BUT, considering mine is leaking at the bottom of the cross shaft seal and the excessive play, am I right to consider replacing it with a rebuilt? If I do, will it come pre-adjusted or will I need to go through these steps with a special tool to adjust the worm shaft bearing?

 

[dr dodge]

if it's leaking, maybe a bad bearing down there
and always check it lock to lock for any binding!
people would over tighten VW bug boxes,
then get buggy'in around and go full lock hard, and it would jam,
and you stuff the buggy

 

[plymouth4onthefloor]

A ball bearing steering box has play in in every position, except straight up. did you confirmed that your steering box! is straight up? Tighten adjuster in the wrong place occurs in a looking middle. I would give a 0.44-0.88 lb inch in the middle section, 50-100 Ncm

 

[pstu]

A ball bearing steering box has play in in every position, except straight up. did you confirmed that your steering box! is straight up? Tighten adjuster in the wrong place occurs in a looking middle. I would give a 0.44-0.88 lb inch in the middle section, 50-100 Ncm

I'm not sure I understand, what do you mean straight up? When I twist the steering shaft where the play is, I can see the worm shaft rotate in and out towards and away from the steering box.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Thank you for this. Reading the manual, (I promise I read it before I posted it, it's starting to make more sense now) you adjust the cross shaft based on torque required to turn the steering wheel, which adjusts the height of the cross shaft and it's tapered teeth against the sector shaft. I don't have a way to measure that, but it doesn't seem to be my issue. The next step in the procedure is to adjust the Worm Shaft Bearing adjustment. I don't have the tool to adjust this, and I intend to learn more before I touch anything else. BUT, considering mine is leaking at the bottom of the cross shaft seal and the excessive play, am I right to consider replacing it with a rebuilt? If I do, will it come pre-adjusted or will I need to go through these steps with a special tool to adjust the worm shaft bearing?

I'd say either a QUALITY replacement or a rebuild of your existing one is probably in order. Good luck finding an actual quality rebuilt unit.

 

[pstu]

I'd say either a QUALITY replacement or a rebuild of your existing one is probably in order. Good luck finding an actual quality rebuilt unit.

Any suggestions? I've read good things about Firm Feel and Lares.

 

[slantsixdan]

Just finished putting my front end back together and decided I might as well tighten up the steering box, I want to say I've got about 10* of play in the steering wheel. This is a 1965 Barracuda with power steering. I tightened the adjusting screw 1/8 turns, twice, and it made zero difference. Should I keep going? I've also got a leak where the pitman arm meets the steering box.

There are two adjustments, and they have to be done the right way, in the right order. The first adjustment to make is the sector mesh preload adjustable at the input face of the box (the part that faces the firewall). You loosen the lockring (a hammer and punch works), tighten the box "lid" by carefully tapping it clockwise with your hammer and punch until it seats, then back it off very slightly and hold it in position while tightening the lockring.

Then you set the cross-shaft preload, which is the screw on top of the box. You loosen the locknut and hold it in place while you snug the screw, then back it off about 1/8 turn and hold it in place while you tighten the locknut. Both of these adjustments need to be made with the load off the wheels, so the car should be lifted slightly off the pavement. (By rights, you're supposed to disconnect the pitman arm so there's no load on the steering box).

Sounds like you also have a leaky output shaft seal, though, so the advice to get a rebuilt box is good. Firm Feel or Steer & Gear or Red Head.

 

[Mattax]

Determine where the play is actually coming from.

^^^This^^^

I do feel like I'm floating when I drive it.

It could be the steeing box but first check for play in the wheel bearings, then tie rod ends and pitman arm connection.
Jack up one wheel and grab it at 9 and 3 o'clock. Then have someone try to turn the wheel by grabbing the tire while you observe each of the steering joints. You can do it by yourself if you're clever. You'll need light under the car and don't don't go under the car with just a jack holding it. Use your head don't lose your head. ;)

 

[Bodyperson]

(By rights, you're supposed to disconnect the pitman arm so there's no load on the steering box).

And... should eliminate any differences in the limiting differences from left to right that may obscure finding the center of the box or the "high point" of the sector shaft.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Any suggestions? I've read good things about Firm Feel and Lares.

I cannot comment one way or the other, other than to say I've seen people right on this forum unhappy with each of those brands. This is just one more reason I am glad I have a manual steering car. As long as they are maintained and greased properly, they will last virtually forever.

 

[plymouth4onthefloor]

I'm not sure I understand, what do you mean straight up? When I twist the steering shaft where the play is, I can see the worm shaft rotate in and out towards and away from the steering box.

sorry got it wrong. I thought you had play at the steering wheel
left/right