Police vrs. firm feel and steer and gear

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360dartgts

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I have a newly rebuilt police power steering chunk sitting around and am also planning on putting in my '69 dart. Question I have is how firm is this gear compared to the stage 2 and 3 boxes built by steer and gear and FF?

Anybody with experience on the comparison of these units to the factory police packages?
 
My ps setup came from an '88 Gran Fury cop car. Seems like the specs on it listed the steering setup as a Firm Feel unit. I'll try to find that spec sheet and confirm this later.
C
 
Located that info. It is called "Star Network - vehicle information report" that the dealer ran when I went in for a part one day. It ran to 5 pages!
Anyhow, I had an'88 Gran Fury cop car. It was listed with a code "SBB, Quick Ratio - Firm Feel Power Steering". I think it is 3.5 turns lock to lock.
Not sure how this would compare with Stage 2 or Stage 3 boxes that you referred to.
HTH,
C
 
The lock-to-lock number is the same for all of the power steering boxes- standard, police, firm feel or otherwise. The only way to change that is to add fast ratio pitman and idler arms.

The difference is the valving (reaction springs), which controls the amount of "boost" that the power steering pump provides. Firm Feel actually states right on their website that their Stage I box is slightly firmer than an OE police unit, and the Stage II and II boxes are two steps firmer than that.

Right from the Firm Feel website

All FFI Power Steering boxes are thoroughly cleaned and inspected: the cases are machined for roller bearing sector supports, and the worm gear assemblies are resized. The box is then fitted with Firm Feel's exclusive reaction springs, ranging in three steps from slightly firmer than the OE police box to two steps firmer yet, depending on your needs. All boxes are bench tested and shipped ready to install.
Click to expand...

I have a FFI Stage III box for my Dart, but unfortunately I haven't driven it yet. The decision to go with a Stage III box was purely based on the comments of almost everyone I've talked to that ordered a Stage II box, pretty much all of them "wished they'd gotten a Stage III". But no firsthand experience on my part.
 
Good info 72blu. I will have to look around their website. When they compare and rate the boost as firm, firmer, firmest (so to speak) is that saying that the firmest (stage 3) may be close to a modern rack & pinion power steering set up?

Call me a wuss if you want, but I just drove about 750 miles of Sky Line Drive and Blue Ridge Parkway plus a side trip on curvy mountain roads. A beautiful drive, but I was sore as all get out from it! That was four days of work out that I wasn't used to! I really don't know what shape I would have been in had I been driving my truck or the wife's Avenger because both of them require a lot more effort than my Duster.
C
 
I'm probably the wrong person to ask. I haven't driven the Dart I set up with the FFI Stage III box, and my other two cars are at dead opposite ends of the spectrum. My Challenger has the stock power steering box, and even with 275 wide front tires and +5 caster I can still drive it with my pinky. #-o My Duster, on the other hand, has a 16:1 quick ratio manual steering box and 275 wide front tires. That's the same ratio as the power boxes, just no boost at all. That one takes some elbow grease to get parked.

Personally, I like the 16:1 manual box better, so I'm not too worried about the Stage III power steering box. Honestly, parking is the only time I think about the manual box being hard to steer. Once you get above 10mph the manual box is awesome. Just don't go anywhere you need to parallel park. :D
 
I'm not sure I agree. If that's the case, than what's this and why was it even marked "T/A" if it's the same? Since Tony has an original AAR Cuda, maybe he'll chime in.

[ame="http://www.ebay.com/itm/AAR-CUDA-TA-CHALLENGER-FAST-RATIO-POWER-STEERING-GEARBOX-1970-ONLY-/151398647880?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2340100848&vxp=mtr"]AAR Cuda TA Challenger Fast Ratio Power Steering Gearbox 1970 Only | eBay[/ame]
 

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This confused the hell out of me. What's the ratio of a stock p/s chuck? I thought it was 20:1 . I thought the cop chuck was 16:1 . And 12:1 if you put a cop chuck with a quick ratio pitman and idler arms. If all the stock p/s chucks are the same what are the differences? And why is the cop chuck more desirable? I ended up buying a cop chuck from an 89 diplomat from Napa for around 150 (I think)
 
RustyRatRod said:
I'm not sure I agree. If that's the case, than what's this and why was it even marked "T/A" if it's the same? Since Tony has an original AAR Cuda, maybe he'll chime in.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AAR-CUDA-TA...Parts_Accessories&hash=item2340100848&vxp=mtr
Click to expand...

The internal lock to lock stop points are different to make up for the longer sweep of the longer Fast Ratio Pitman Arm. "T/A" box has same ratio as regular box and Police Box. The "T/A" casted on the housing is to Identify it.



71-19-4_page1.jpg


71-19-4_page2.jpg
 
So the TA box feels no differently than any other box? That's stupid.
 
I got a stage ii, and it's not super firm but decently firmer than stock.

I recall a mopar action article a couple years ago that discussed shimming the pressure valve to increase feel.
 
jos51700 said:
I got a stage ii, and it's not super firm but decently firmer than stock.

I recall a mopar action article a couple years ago that discussed shimming the pressure valve to increase feel.
Click to expand...

That article was called "Pump it Down" and it's here in PDF form.
[ame]http://www.moparaction.com/tech/beep/PUMP_IT_DOWN-re-v1.4.pdf[/ame]
 
RustyRatRod said:
So the TA box feels no differently than any other box? That's stupid.
Click to expand...

The leverage of the longer pitman will increase resistance. BUT the bulletin says the pump has higher pressure. So maybe they cancel each other out?

Regardless of feel, its much quicker steering. You will/do notice yhat
 
So then the power unit get's its quicker ratio from the linkage only, unlike the manual unit. That's crazy.
 
RustyRatRod said:
So then the power unit get's its quicker ratio from the linkage only, unlike the manual unit. That's crazy.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

I'm guessing it's more costly to make gears for power steering. And I think they knew it was going to be a limited available option.

They offered fast ratio manual from 65? To 69. And it never was very popular.
 
Yeah I forgot about the TA boxes, thanks Steve for explaining that part. The TA box has a 16:1 internal ratio, but the larger steering arms get you to a final ratio of 12:1.

All the other power boxes have a 16:1 ratio. The police box just had different valving to change the amount of assist. And maybe a better bearing? That was it. A minor improvement, but not even to the point of the FFI stage 1.

Manual boxes came in 24:1, 20:1, and 16:1. Standard was 24:1. The quick ratio manual boxes were 16:1. For awhile, mopar performance was making 20:1 replacement worm gears for the manual boxes, but last I checked they weren't making those anymore.

I like the 16:1 manual box I've got from flaming river. 12:1 would be awesome, but that would have to be power. I've thought about using a Howe steering quickner with a stock power steering box, they come in 1.5:1 or 2:1, so you could do 12:1 or even 8:1. The hotchkis challenger used a stock ps box and a Howe 1.5:1 quickner...
 
I agree, thanks for all the explanations.
C
 
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