Potentially Huge T5 Breakthrough!

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70DusterDev

70DusterDev

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So I've been reading up on all the old posts of which 5 spds you guys have been talking about to put into the A body cars. The Dokata trany and the T5.

Well on the way home from work I was thinking about the T5 because they started out in CJ7's which I have rebuild a handful of. So I called Novak-Adapters and I asked "The T5 was a borg-warner transmission in the CJs. Then they came out with the World Class for the mustangs etc. Did they change the front bolt pattern where the bellhousing bolts to it?" He answers "No I dont think they did." So I said "Well does that mean the CJ7 bellhousing will bolt to the ford T5?" ... "Ugghh I've never had anyone ask that before but I dont see why it wouldnt. The input bearing retainer may be different?"

I know for a fact that the AMC and Mopar bell housings are the same because I have used Mopar AX15's on many v8 and /6 CJ engines.

After getting off the phone with them I called up a guy I use to work for who had a T5WC with 50k on it from a wrecked 86 mustang and picked it up for $50. Took it back to the shop and pulled the bellhousing off it frantically and sure enough.... they are the same pattern!! I had a CJ T5 bell under the bench from an old trans. The input bearing retainer is infact bigger by about 1/4 of an inch so I'm going to have my buddy machine it for me.

This means we can bolt our small block mopars to a nice 5spd trany for pretty cheap since the CJ T5's are pretty easy to come by being that they came in almost every 6 cylinder CJ from 82/83 up to 86 that was a 5spd.

The Ford bell is a little bit deeper by about 1/4" but I should be able to just trim the input shaft down if it is a problem. I havent looked into the jeep throw-out bearing vs the mustang one etc but that should be pretty simple to do.

I just thought I'd share this info because depending on how everything goes together it may work out pretty well and be a nice alternative to the expensive aftermarket bells to get a nice shifting O/D 5spd in our cars!

:blob:

Ford bell. 7"
IMG_20140130_184229_680.jpg


AMC bell. 6 13/16"
IMG_20140130_184220_571.jpg


IMG_20140130_184147_024.jpg
 
You lost me on this. A jeep T5 in conjunction with the jeep bell housing will bolt to a small bolt mopar?
Rod
 
This is exactly what old school hot rodding is all about!
 
Haha sorry about that. No the T5 was a 4x4 jeep transmission long before the T5Worldclass came out in mustangs. BUT Borg-Warner kept the front case of the trans the same. Therefor the 4 bolt pattern between the bell housing and the transmission never changed.

SO you can bolt an AMC/Jeep bellhousing to a FORD T5 World Class transmission. The AMC/Jeep bellhousing is the same as the Chrysler bellhousing bolt pattern, allowing you to bolt the AMC bellhousing to the Chrysler motor.

:cheers:
 
RustyRatRod said:
T5s break.
Click to expand...

The Jeep T5's sure do. The mustang T5 world class tranys where quite a bit better. I've had a few buddies put some serious hurting on their old 5.0 mustangs and never had trany issues. Not saying they cant be blown up or broken.. but I suppose anything can with the right amount of HP and beating
 
Subscribed... I did 5.0 Mustangs,a long time.That T5 was installed EVERYWHERE. IF a W,C T5 bolts up... I need a picture,of the bellhousing first. Then ,you deal with clutch height/t.o. bearing .issues.....
 
Abodybomber said:
Subscribed... I did 5.0 Mustangs,a long time.That T5 was installed EVERYWHERE. IF a W,C T5 bolts up... I need a picture,of the bellhousing first. Then ,you deal with clutch height/t.o. bearing .issues.....
Click to expand...

I posted a picture of the Jeep bellhousing.

Novak makes an adjustable throwout bearing... so that helps with that. The inside diameter of this throwout bearing may not be right but there is something out there that will work... there always is... and there's nothing we cant build! :-D

Hell if this it the only throwout bearing that will work... we could probably get the input bearing retainer from an AX15 that works with this and weld the sleeve of it to the retainer of the T5.


Clutch Release System
This conversion requires a hydraulic clutch release system, and nearly every Jeep will benefit greatly from an upgrade to this if it doesn't already feature it. Use of a mechanical clutch would be contraindicated for a variety of reasons. The heart of the success of any clutch release system is the throwout bearing. Our adjustable one is the ace up your sleeve.

There is no combination of factory clutches and release bearings that will provide the right spacing and geometry for proper clutch release and operation for this conversion and the variety of clutch finger heights. Few bearing length options were available from the factory and even fewer of those are available on the market now. However, Novak's fully adjustable release bearing eliminates this problem and permits very fine adjustment for optimal clutch action.

Clutch Release Bearing
amc_bearing_measurement_long.jpg

Bearing, clutch release, throwout, Novak adjustable, AMC version Part #: TB2 Weight: 1.50 Price: $79.00 Buy:
​
 
cuda65vpt said:
So you are saying the 4.0L Jeep bell that i scrapped would have bolted to my 318 and a Ford T5WC?
Click to expand...

No, the 4.0 jeep bell depending on the year 87-88 BA10/5 or 89-95 AX15 where BOTH different at the trans side. YES they'd bolt to your 318.... but NO they wont bolt to the T5.

You'd need a T5 bell housing from an 80's AMC Jeep CJ7 last year being 86. Once they went to the Chrysler Jeep Wrangler in 87 they used different tranys.
 
GForce ,and I believe a few others offer some hop up parts for the t-5's. From what I remember you can get one of there trans for less than half of the "new" 5 speed...
 
inkjunkie said:
GForce ,and I believe a few others offer some hop up parts for the t-5's. From what I remember you can get one of there trans for less than half of the "new" 5 speed...
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm not too worried about the strength. The T5wc's are a dime a dozen too. You can find wrecked fox bodies everywhere if you need another one.
 
What are you going to do about a starter, I pretty sure the AMC are on the passenger side of the motor.
 
They are. May need to use an AMC or ford starter depending on gear size. Still need to look into this and crawl under the duster again since its been a while so see how its laid out. My buddy has a 360 on a stand that I'll probably try the whole setup on.
 
FYI,
I have had tons of CJ's still have a couple, and a mopar small block will not bolt up to any AMC bellhousing, without alot of custom work.
Yes I have tried this.
Cheaper just to buy a quicktime bell and be done with it.
 
Have you got a Mopar gearbox? How does the WC T5 compare in retainer size, shaft length, etc?
 
sireland67 said:
FYI,
I have had tons of CJ's still have a couple, and a mopar small block will not bolt up to any AMC bellhousing, without alot of custom work.
Yes I have tried this.
Cheaper just to buy a quicktime bell and be done with it.
Click to expand...

If you mean the bolt pattern won't work without fab I have to disagree with this because I have a cj in the shop right now with a 76 amc360 and 95 Chrysler trans bolted to it.... the only thing I had to do was use that adjustable throwout bearing.

So the bolt patterns will work. If youre talking about trying to get a starter etc to work then you may be right, that may be harder. But that's what makes this fun! Like I said I'm gonna take the AMC bell and bolt it on my buddies 360 and go from there with starters etc and pictures to follow.

I'm certainly not trying to start anything with you sirerland. I'd just like to see for myself because of my young stubbornness I suppose.
 
sireland67 said:
FYI,
I have had tons of CJ's still have a couple, and a mopar small block will not bolt up to any AMC bellhousing, without alot of custom work.
Yes I have tried this.
Cheaper just to buy a quicktime bell and be done with it.
Click to expand...


Something else sireland, is that chrysler transmission I am using behind my AMC IS however from a chrysler/jeep. It is very possible that they kept the AMC bell housing pattern for those motors only and the LA pattern is different.

I dont have the LA block infront of me to look to veriffy that but then it would make sense of what you are saying that they dont interchange, in which case I'd owe you an appology.

If this is the case, then I will look into what it will take to mount the A833 housing on the T5 case so that there arent starter issues.
 
70DusterDev said:
Something else sireland, is that chrysler transmission I am using behind my AMC IS however from a chrysler/jeep. It is very possible that they kept the AMC bell housing pattern for those motors only and the LA pattern is different.

I dont have the LA block infront of me to look to veriffy that but then it would make sense of what you are saying that they dont interchange, in which case I'd owe you an appology.

If this is the case, then I will look into what it will take to mount the A833 housing on the T5 case so that there arent starter issues.
Click to expand...

The AMC bellhousing is different than the Chrysler small block pattern. What you propose will not work.
 
replicaracer43 said:
The AMC bellhousing is different than the Chrysler small block pattern. What you propose will not work.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well thats why I said possible. I thought I was really on to something here haha. The only thing I wasnt aware of is that Chrysler kept AMC's bellhousing pattern for their jeeps. That threw me a curve ball.
 
T5's are a shitbox transmission, they couldnt hold up to a 225hp 302, unless you're gonna put one behind a 64 273 Valiant, save yourself the headache.
 
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