Power top conversion with modern rams?sla

[Mashman]

I'm starting a full restoration on a 65 dart 270 convertible for my wife.

She's petite, so I'm makeing modificatons to make things easier for her, such as converting from a split bench, to buckets, which will make it easier for her to adjust.

The car currently has a manual top, I'd like to convert over to a powered top. I've noticed that the system used in 65 to lift the top really is not much different than the systems used on modern cars. The pump/rams for modern Sebring's seem to be readily available, and fairly cheap. If I fab the brackets, is there any reason I can't use the pump/rams from a Sebring?

Has anyone done a power top conversion with a modern pump/rams?

Thanks!

 

[66Dvert]

I'm starting a full restoration on a 65 dart 270 convertible for my wife.

She's petite, so I'm makeing modificatons to make things easier for her, such as converting from a split bench, to buckets, which will make it easier for her to adjust.

The car currently has a manual top, I'd like to convert over to a powered top. I've noticed that the system used in 65 to lift the top really is not much different than the systems used on modern cars. The pump/rams for modern Sebring's seem to be readily available, and fairly cheap. If I fab the brackets, is there any reason I can't use the pump/rams from a Sebring?


Has anyone done a power top conversion with a modern pump/rams?

Thanks!

I tried the sebring, mustang and a gernam car (dang if I can rmrmber it's name now) rams for my 66 dart and they were just too short to get full lift and retract, plus they are weaker than the originals (i have a bent one to prove it) i tried all different types of angles to get full lift and retract but wasn't able to come up with a good angle. the sebring/mustang and german ones have a pivot point on the top of the cylinder instead of the bottom and it'd hard to get a good solid mount in the correct angle, if you do then the stroke is to short . you can find an exact pump (same as the 66 dart pump connectors and all) replacement in an early 90's mustang. I got 2 of them (90 and 93 mustang) last junkyard trip so I could at least put in 20year old stuff instead of 40 YO stuff. one had even been rebuilt/ replaced in 2009 and they only cost me 25.00 apiece! I used sebring hoses for mine and they were TIGHT, I'm still looking for JY lines that are longer.

 

[Mashman]

I tried the sebring, mustang and a gernam car (dang if I can rmrmber it's name now) rams for my 66 dart and they were just too short to get full lift and retract, plus they are weaker than the originals (i have a bent one to prove it) i tried all different types of angles to get full lift and retract but wasn't able to come up with a good angle. the sebring/mustang and german ones have a pivot point on the top of the cylinder instead of the bottom and it'd hard to get a good solid mount in the correct angle, if you do then the stroke is to short . you can find an exact pump (same as the 66 dart pump connectors and all) replacement in an early 90's mustang. I got 2 of them (90 and 93 mustang) last junkyard trip so I could at least put in 20year old stuff instead of 40 YO stuff. one had even been rebuilt/ replaced in 2009 and they only cost me 25.00 apiece! I used sebring hoses for mine and they were TIGHT, I'm still looking for JY lines that are longer.

Thanks!

I had noticed that the pivot point was at the top of the ram on the Sebring's, unlike at the bottom like the Dart's. I was thinking of making a sleeve type bracket, that bolted thru the top mount on the ram, and on the bottom bolted thru the bottom bracket. The ram would be bolted inside it kind of like a canister fits inside a caulking gun.

My big concerns/unknowns was the extension lengths of the different rams, and the strength compared to the original. You seemed to have addressed those.

Can you answer me a couple of things? First, where did the ram that bent, bend, and how was it mounted? Am I correct in assuming that it was the cylinder that bent, and that it was mounted at the bottom? The original rams look to be pretty beefy. With a pivot point at the bottom, there would be much more stress put on the cylinder, than if the pivot point was at the top. At the top, the stress would be picked up at the bracket at the top, and not passed down thru the cylinder, like it would be with the bracket at the bottom.

Also, if you had the Sebring rams mounted at the bottom, how far short were they? Of the bracket I'm thinking of making had an extension on the bottom of it, of a certain length, do you think it would work then?

Thanks!

 

[wjajr]

I realize that you want to save a buck, but I bet that if you were to compare actual part numbers for your car’s hydraulic pistons on the site below, you can find additional later model donor vehicles that use the same.
http://www.hydroe.com/
Also these guys know convertibles, and can help with any hard to find parts. I have used them in the past, and was happy with their service.

 

[66Dvert]

Thanks!

I had noticed that the pivot point was at the top of the ram on the Sebring's, unlike at the bottom like the Dart's. I was thinking of making a sleeve type bracket, that bolted thru the top mount on the ram, and on the bottom bolted thru the bottom bracket. The ram would be bolted inside it kind of like a canister fits inside a caulking gun.

My big concerns/unknowns was the extension lengths of the different rams, and the strength compared to the original. You seemed to have addressed those.

Can you answer me a couple of things? First, where did the ram that bent, bend, and how was it mounted? Am I correct in assuming that it was the cylinder that bent, and that it was mounted at the bottom? The original rams look to be pretty beefy. With a pivot point at the bottom, there would be much more stress put on the cylinder, than if the pivot point was at the top. At the top, the stress would be picked up at the bracket at the top, and not passed down thru the cylinder, like it would be with the bracket at the bottom.

Also, if you had the Sebring rams mounted at the bottom, how far short were they? Of the bracket I'm thinking of making had an extension on the bottom of it, of a certain length, do you think it would work then?

Thanks!

let's see if I can actually answer some of those questions
where the ram bent was the rod.
it over traveled so that it bound up and hiot the metal that holds the top mechamism and the top tried to finish lowering by it own weight (stroke too short) I think the sebring was 14 or so inches and the stockers are more like 18 inches total rod extension. either I had it go all the way down and not up or the other way all the way up but not down. just couldn't get it adjusted right when I manually raised and lower the top to find the center point (trying to cheat a little) and mounted it at that spot the cylinders were at such an odd angle that they couldn't lift the top from the full down position.
how was it mounted?
I got some mounting brackets from a 93 mustang that just unbolted (2 different cars to get all 4 brackets) and it was mounted just like the 96 sebring using the top of the cylinder mounting points.
mounted on the bottom
I didn't think of mounting it on the bottom since it was a short cylinder and it never crossed my mind to do that.. hmmmm.


try to find a cylinder that has the same stroke length as the original(then you've got some wiggle room in mounting the pivot brackets and you should be good to go using the pivot points on the car. I know the cylinders pivoted nice on the shorter cylinders but they were just too short.

hope this helps
BTW I just saw an add from the convertible specialists in Inverness florida that has my original style cylinders for 114.00 each

I'm saving my pennies now to get a set