pressure plate experts

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Hipo65

Hipo65

Yeah I'm "That Guy"
Joined
Aug 9, 2013
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Location
Lincoln Nebraska
Asking borg & beck style p.p. gurus. Ok Iive confirmed that rite @ about 2000-2500 rpm I can actually see the release fingers swing out & make contact with my release bearing! At idle its fine & I have the 1/ 12 free play in (dead space or take up) my clutch peadle until engine hits 2k on up you actually feel the free play go away! Its a scalloped 10 inch borg & beck from ram. I called them & hes stumped as well its a non assist type p.p. with no rollers or anything like that. The disc will release but has a slight 'pop' when it does due to fingers being flung out. Anyone have a clue what to look for as to why its doing this? Wouldn't that wear out a throw out bearing in no time? Any help is greatly appreciated!!
 
Hipo65 said:
Asking borg & beck style p.p. gurus. Ok Iive confirmed that rite @ about 2000-2500 rpm I can actually see the release fingers swing out & make contact with my release bearing! At idle its fine & I have the 1/ 12 free play in (dead space or take up) my clutch peadle until engine hits 2k on up you actually feel the free play go away! Its a scalloped 10 inch borg & beck from ram. I called them & hes stumped as well its a non assist type p.p. with no rollers or anything like that. The disc will release but has a slight 'pop' when it does due to fingers being flung out. Anyone have a clue what to look for as to why its doing this? Wouldn't that wear out a throw out bearing in no time? Any help is greatly appreciated!!
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how thick is the disc?? that determines finger heights. if too thin, lets fingers come out. you have shims under pressure plate?
 
No shims under pressure plate. The disc is new organic on one side & iron on the other. The disc is .320 thick.

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No, I'd say you don't want to run the fingers on the release bearing constantly. All you really need is just off it. I'd suspect the cover is the issue (or maybe no issue at all) as the disc isn't getting any thinner at higher rpm. I believe it is normal for fingers on some plates to move like that to apply more clamp load as rpm increases. What is the actual pressure plate you have? I think I'd look there.
FWIW, MP say's 1.700" finger height with a .310" disc for a stock B&B.
 
Its a stock style replacement b&b from ram. Heres a few pics of the p.p. I have it back out of the car & going to have acclutch shop look at it today. I can't se anything a miss with it!

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Ok took it all to Lincoln clutch & brake they put it in there set up & it released cleanly & finger hight is ok. They didn't see any issue's. Only thing I seen was the release bearing contacts the fingers its on the very outmost portion of the release bearing. Like dam neer not not contacting even with the supplied self centering release bearing. Put it back together & as I suspected same dam thing. Rev it up those fingers dly out & push hard on the release bearing & make it pop a little! Somthing is ----ing wrong in that p.p. but what???? Help so I know what to scream at ram for! This dam 4-speed swap has been going on since june! Its about ready for a for sale sign! Boy I could had a real nasty 904 in there twice with the money ive dumped in the swap by now!
 
What kind of return spring do you have on the clutch fork?
 
Well, let's discuss the "pop" you are hearing. As I understand from post 1 you hear this when the clutch plate releases the disc, as in peddle depressed. You/they heard no "pop" at the clutch shop? Does it happen when rotating or even with engine off? With the peddle depressed, can you determine maximum plate departure with a feeler gauge (.060" is a starting point per MP)?
Can you determine whether or not the release bearing contacts all three fingers at the same time while pushing the clutch fork rearward by hand?
 
No pop at clutch shop. It will not ever pop unless engine is revved up to 2000-on up. Yes it does have .060 gap when fully released. When laying under car my son will rev motor till 2500-3000 rpm & it will push back the release bearing hard & make kind of a quiter pop/snap. Let it retun to idle push in clutch it pops/snaps & then the 1/8 gap of between the bearing & fingers returns. I can tell for sure (after a little searching on here) apparently some 10 inch scalloped p.p. have had too short of release fingers in them & trashed release bearinhs & fingers. Toolmanmike haf said it happed to him. I wonder if the same dam thing is going on here? The fingers contact the bearing on the very edge! I mean very edge!
 
Short fingers or just too much arc travel allowed by the clutch cover. One would think the manufacture would know of these issues if repetitive and revise.
Release bearing diameter and assembled height can also be a factor.
IMO, send it all back, give Brewer's set shot.
 
Ok took ot back to clutch shop & spoke with the owner. We have come to agree that the fingers of the p.p. are to short! They have a set of fingers that are a 1/4 invh longer that would put the contact pf release bearing perfectly center. Going to have them switch them out & make sure all else is good with the plate & I will have ram pay for that bill. Keep fingers crossed & ill report back later on today if he gets it done today.
 
While its out you might want to check for wear/bent condition on the fork and fulcrum if you haven't already.
 
Ok fixed!!!!! Ram is getting a bill from Lincoln clutch & brake!!!!! As I wondered the dingers were to short! Causing them to fly out & get jamed up! Also the pins & guides were JUNK & not lubed whatsoever! He swaped out the release finger that are a 1/4 inch longer & installed new pins & eye bolts rechecked release & said to come get it. Got it back together & presto! Now more swinging out fingers! Only problom I ran into was fingers hit the disc at first few times I was setting it up. The only thing I didn't like was I only have about .030-.035 release gap now. Any more & it will start to hit the bolts that hold the disc together. Seems to work good so far. Pedal is noticeably easyer & has about 2 inches free play now. Even there off the shelf p.p for /6 & 273 had the wrong short fingers in it. Hes baffled as to why. Thanks for the responses fellas! I really appreciate it! Now time for a WELL deserved beer!!!!!!
 
Hipo65 said:
Ok fixed!!!!! Ram is getting a bill from Lincoln clutch & brake!!!!! As I wondered the dingers were to short! Causing them to fly out & get jamed up! Also the pins & guides were JUNK & not lubed whatsoever! He swaped out the release finger that are a 1/4 inch longer & installed new pins & eye bolts rechecked release & said to come get it. Got it back together & presto! Now more swinging out fingers! Only problom I ran into was fingers hit the disc at first few times I was setting it up. The only thing I didn't like was I only have about .030-.035 release gap now. Any more & it will start to hit the bolts that hold the disc together. Seems to work good so far. Pedal is noticeably easyer & has about 2 inches free play now. Even there off the shelf p.p for /6 & 273 had the wrong short fingers in it. Hes baffled as to why. Thanks for the responses fellas! I really appreciate it! Now time for a WELL deserved beer!!!!!!
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hi, years ago, I had same problem with 10 " B&B . I installed fingers from 10 1/2 pp. cured problem. I had forgot about that. wish I could have told you before. seems they take a different throw out bearing.
 
Iit would've had to have been 1/2 larger in dia. to even come close to working rite. Plus thease fingers weren't even straight to begin with!

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Hipo65 said:
Iit would've had to have been 1/2 larger in dia. to even come close to working rite. Plus thease fingers weren't even straight to begin with!

View attachment 1714976701
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You are saying those are the fingers that Ram sent out?

There is a reason why I stopped using Ram in 1988. We just disagree on too much. And they didn't make what I needed so they sold me what they had.
 
Yes that is what ram had sent out. Seems they couldn't get that pressure plate here so it was out sourced (China) & they just added it to the disc they coustm made for me. There re funding me the cost of making the p.p. rite at least. Now McLeod has very nice people & good customer svc. but after 3 attempts to make a clutch for me & all have not worked. They came rite out & said they don't have or can't get a b&b cover for my application. Sooooo they built a small 9 7/8 twin with unsprung hubs & 2 faulty diaphragm p.p.'s. After the 2nd warped p.p. I called ram again & this time they could make me a 10 inch hybrid disc. Now that the fingers & hardware are all up to par this is the best set up yet! No chatter on engaging the clutch & holds my warmed up lil 273 just fine. Haven't beat on er to hard yet want to make sure the disc is good & seated in before I do any hard take offs and so on.
 
Hipo65 said:
Yes that is what ram had sent out. Seems they couldn't get that pressure plate here so it was out sourced (China) & they just added it to rthe disc the coustm made for me. There re funding me the cost of making the p.p. rite at least. No McLeod has very nice people & good customer svc. but after 3 attempts to make a clutch for me all all have not worked. They came rite out & said they don't have or can't get a b&b cover for my application. Sooooo went with small 9 7/8 twin with unsprung hubs & 2 faulty diaphragm p.p.'s. After the 2nd warped p.p. I called ram again & this time they could make me a 10 inch hybrid disc. Now that the fingers & hardware are all up to par this is the best set up yet! No chatter on engaging the clutch & holds my warmed up lil 273 just fine. Haven't beat on er to hard yet want ro make sure the disc is good & seated in before I do any hard take offs and so on.
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McLeod is cutting back on part numbers. That's why they didn't have the cover you wanted. I'm all for any Borg and Beck cover over any diaphram. Glad Ram is making it right. Regardless of where it's made, that should have caught the fingers being wrong before they put it in the box.
 
yellow rose said:
Ram clutches.
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So....after reading this thread, can anybody tell me where to buy a 273 pressure plate that would be correct with first installation? I am having some issues with my clutch not completely disengaging (most notably when shifting to reverse).
Great reading...thanks FABO members
 
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