price of brass vs steel? cast? pipe fittings = weird

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67Dart273

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I needed a 1/4 x 3/8 NPT bushing this morning, and could not justify the gas clear out to Lowes or HD, so I stopped by the overpriced local Ace

Turns out a brass bushing was about 3.60 AND THE CAST/ STEEL ONE WAS NEARLY A BUCK HIGHER!!!

Go figure LOL
 
Just paid $9,88 for a 1/16 brass pipe plug. Had a hell of a time even finding it. I feel your pain.
 
Isn’t this”transformation” fun!!! I just bought some schedule 40-4” 10 pcs
 
I used to work for Watts (big valve/plumbing manufacturer). Most of their stuff is brass/bronze. They run big multi-spindle screw machines 24/7 , popping out little brass fittings and other parts with almost zero labor content. Load 6 or 8 brass bars in the machine , push a button, and a few hours later you have a barrell full of finshed parts. Tooling does not wear much, little to no inspection is done therefore, there is no porosity in brass bar stock, and there is no engineering needed (parts have not changed for 100 years!). Each machine is dedicated to making one part , or maybe a few vaiations. Now with forged steel or cast iron, you have a lot more tool wear resultng in work stoppages. Someone sort of has to watch over the machining process. Iron castings are sometimes full of porosity, resulting in more scrap. There are typically a lot more workholding issues with castings and forgings, and often they will require manual loading/unloading on the machines. Definitely not an unattended 24/7 operation. All these materials are fairly cheap. Brass/bronze has one big advantage, in that it is more easily melted down and cast into other parts such as large bronze valve bodies. Watts for one, has its own bronze foundry on-site so all those brass machining chips get recyled immeditely into new bronze castings. Usually the steel and iron go to a recycler, since the ferrous casting and forging process is not as easy as for brass/bronze. Maybe these are some of the answers.
 
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I used to work for Watts (big valve/plumbing manufacturer). Most of their stuff is brass/bronze. They run big multi-spindle screw machines 24/7 , popping out little brass fittings and other parts with almost zero labor content. Load 6 or 8 brass bars in the machine , push a button, and a few hours later you have a barrell full of finshed parts. Tooling does not wear much, little to no inspection is done therefore, there is no porosity in brass bar stock, and there is no engineering needed (parts have not changed for 100 years!). Each machine is dedicated to making one part , or maybe a few vaiations. Now with forged steel or cast iron, you have a lot more tool wear resultng in work stoppages. Someone sort of has to watch over the machining process. Iron castings are sometimes full of porosity, resulting in more scrap. There are typically a lot more workholding issues with castings and forgings, and often they will require manual loading/unloading on the machines. Definitely not an unattended 24/7 operation. All these materials are fairly cheap. Brass/bronze has one big advantage, in that it is more easily melted down and cast into other parts such as large bronze valve bodies. Watts for one, has its own bronze foundry on-site so all those brass machining chips get recyled immeditely into new bronze castings. Usually the steel and iron go to a recycler, since the ferrous casting and forging process is not as easy as for brass/bronze. Maybe these are some of the answers.

Thanks for a good explanation of the process. Whenever larger parts are involved, the cost of the material becomes the largest part of the cost of the product.

From a 2000 catalog [Manhattan Supply Co.----- MSC] : the cost of a 1/4 x 3/8 bushing in
steel was 53 cents ------ in brass it was 60 cents.

If you know, how do they hold a 1 1/2'' - 90 degree elbow when machining it?
 
(parts have not changed for 100 years!). .

Actually "they have" LOL. Now that we have all the offshore manufacturers, it is sometimes difficult to get various brass fittings---in U.S. / SAE types--that have U.S. wrench hex flats on them. And some of them are NEITHER U.S. or metric. They are just "off"
 
Thanks for a good explanation of the process. Whenever larger parts are involved, the cost of the material becomes the largest part of the cost of the product.

From a 2000 catalog [Manhattan Supply Co.----- MSC] : the cost of a 1/4 x 3/8 bushing in
steel was 53 cents ------ in brass it was 60 cents.

If you know, how do they hold a 1 1/2'' - 90 degree elbow when machining it?
They just have form-fitted hard jaws that bite into it. Could be a 2-jaw, 3-jaw, or even 4-jaw hydraulic chuck. Once the part is chucked, the fixture may even be able to index around to machine different sides/angles. Sometimes you can see the jaw/teeth marks on the un-machined areas. There are workholding companies that can come up with jaws or fixtures to hold onto almost any shape. This machining center fixture might give you an idea (it is tough to find pictures of this stuff!) Picture a small version of this mounted on a lathe. You can machine one side, index it 90° without unclamping, and then do the other side/sides.
4d-5a.jpg
 
Actually "they have" LOL. Now that we have all the offshore manufacturers, it is sometimes difficult to get various brass fittings---in U.S. / SAE types--that have U.S. wrench hex flats on them. And some of them are NEITHER U.S. or metric. They are just "off"
I think that's why most plumbers have many assorted monkey wrenches, adjustable wrenches, channellocks, visegrips, etc...!
 
They just have form-fitted hard jaws that bite into it. Could be a 2-jaw, 3-jaw, or even 4-jaw hydraulic chuck. Once the part is chucked, the fixture may even be able to index around to machine different sides/angles. Sometimes you can see the jaw/teeth marks on the un-machined areas. There are workholding companies that can come up with jaws or fixtures to hold onto almost any shape. This machining center fixture might give you an idea (it is tough to find pictures of this stuff!) Picture a small version of this mounted on a lathe. You can machine one side, index it 90° without unclamping, and then do the other side/sides.
View attachment 1715949227

Thank you. This is exactly what I wanted to know. It shows the raw casting too. The fixture looks like it could be used for an ell, a tee, or a cross. Probably on a horizontal machining center with a rotary table. The tooling and fixtures are costly, so the company would have to make tens of thousands just to break even.
 
Just paid $9,88 for a 1/16 brass pipe plug. Had a hell of a time even finding it. I feel your pain.

I too had a hard time finding a fitting [1/16 npt male x 1/8 npt female] years ago to do a pressure test on a FWD Sebring 4 speed auto. By chance I found it on Amazon listed under Ford fuel injector parts. Chrysler auto transmissions have about [5] 1/16'' steel plugs on them.
 
Actually "they have" LOL. Now that we have all the offshore manufacturers, it is sometimes difficult to get various brass fittings---in U.S. / SAE types--that have U.S. wrench hex flats on them. And some of them are NEITHER U.S. or metric. They are just "off"

The smaller fittings made from hex bar stock are standard SAE sizes. The larger fittings that are made from castings are oddball sizes.
 
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