**Pro Street Ladder Bars???**

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Mad Dart

Mad Dart

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I am in the process of switching out my 8 3/4 Triangulated 4 Link for a Ford 9" with something that will Hook up in a Car Wash that can be used on the street without getting rid of the back seat.

My good friend has a buddy with a un equal length Triangulated 4 Link and about 800HP to the tires. He has messed with it for Days and can not get it to hook except for the first 20 Feet, it then gets Wheel Hop and Tire Chatter and there is absolutely no way to control it. When he had a different power plant with about 600HP to the tires it did fine. The extra ponies are just powering thru the unequal length 4 Link set up.

I should at some point have more power to the tires than he does and I don't want to start off with problems like this.

This Pro Street set up from Alston has Bushings and is supposed to be friendly for Street Use when using their Bushed Track Locator.

Does anyone have experience with this set up on a Street/Strip Car?? Need some help here with the decision.

http://www.cachassisworks.com/p-348...street-ladder-bars-adjustable-lower-tube.aspx

with this.......

http://www.cachassisworks.com/p-323...ater-for-4-link-or-ladder-bar-suspension.aspx
 
Ladder bars act as a massive anti roll bar...not allowing articulation of the rearend housing. The bushings help some, but I still don't think it's the best idea. If you seldom drive the car, sure. If you drive quite a bit, look into building a 4 link setup that is real short in the front. Hell, the upper and lower links can be 2" apart at the front, but as long as they are using seperate bolts, the rearend can move some.
There are some companies that sell these type of setups for the Chevys...Martz chassis is one I think. It may give you some ideas.
 
curleysracecars said:
Ladder bars act as a massive anti roll bar...not allowing articulation of the rearend housing. The bushings help some, but I still don't think it's the best idea. If you seldom drive the car, sure. If you drive quite a bit, look into building a 4 link setup that is real short in the front. Hell, the upper and lower links can be 2" apart at the front, but as long as they are using seperate bolts, the rearend can move some.
There are some companies that sell these type of setups for the Chevys...Martz chassis is one I think. It may give you some ideas.
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I will drive this car probably 2 Days a week if that. Weekends only. I already have a Triangulated 4 Link I know with the power I anticipate it will not hook at the track and it's gunna get wheel hop from my buddy's experience. 600HP is about the cut off with a Link like I have now.
 
so how do them hemi barracuda's hook so well with just superstock springs and a pinion snubber???
 
waggin said:
so how do them hemi barracuda's hook so well with just superstock springs and a pinion snubber???
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People have a mis conception of how they hook so well. You think you can add a set of Leafs and a pinion snubber and hook like them?? Good luck with that. There is alot that goes into a car that hooks with leafs also. If you think it is a bolt on deal, you are in for a surprise. Especially with 1000HP/Torque to the tires!:D

Plus I can't stand the 4x4 Look on an A Body with the *** end sticking up in the air, it looks like chitttt to me. The Wheel Lip must be burried in the wheel well. Try that with some Leaf Springs and then try to get it to hook....... Yeah right.
 
A few leaves are added and they have a clamp on every step in the front of the axle and one clamp if any behind the axle. It'll act like a ladder bar setup, but like Mad Dart said, the rear will sit too high for some people
 
what type a rear coil-overs are you and buddy using? do you think it would help to control traction if the shocks were mounted behind the axle? why would you need a track locator with a triangulated 4-link? maybe you both will have to change the poly bushings to aluminum to gain control of the wheel hop. by the way that is some really nice work you are doing on both the front and back.
 
Im wondering the same thing...how good of coilovers are you using? Double adjustables??? And as mentioned, get rid of any movement you can think may be happening between the housing and the chassis...movement makes things unpredictable because you can never figure out what is moving and possibly causing your problems.
 
There is no track locator used on his or my 4 link. Don't know where that came from.
He is using solid hemis on his with double adjustable strange coil overs that are mounted behind the axle. With his experience he says they have not noticed a difference wit a coil over mounted in front or behind the axle in Real World scenarios, not what someone thinks or says. They have tried several different springs from 90-150's and nothing helps at this power level. These guys have been in this game their whole lives and know how to pull every tenth out of their set ups.

It would be easy for me to transfer the set up I have to the new housing. I'm not looking for
the easy way out. I figure if they can't get it to work with all their experience, then I am jacked from the get go with my set up at the power level this car will eventually be at.

I guess there is a fine line here. Am I building a street car to race, or a race car to drive on the street?? I'm going to have to compromise somewhere right?

Any Ladder Bar guys out there that can post their experience using a set on the street?
 
curleysracecars said:
Im wondering the same thing...how good of coilovers are you using? Double adjustables??? And as mentioned, get rid of any movement you can think may be happening between the housing and the chassis...movement makes things unpredictable because you can never figure out what is moving and possibly causing your problems.
Click to expand...

Read my other post for the answer to your first couple questions.

See here is where the problem lies...... Everyone says on a Street Car you want to use the Poly Bushings to get a good quiet ride but to go fast you don't want to use them. Now I need to answer my own question posted earlier. Is this a Street Car built to be a Race Car, or is it a Race Car that will be driven on the Street. Well to be honest with myself it is a Race Car that will be driven on the Street so I need to get over that and Run whatever makes it work the best for that purpose and get over the comfy street visions that I have been having.

What the heck am I kidding myself? The possibility of running Deep in the 8's at this power level, full reverse Manual Valve body, a Transbrake and a 12 point cage on the street? Yes it is being built as a Race Car. The street car version was thrown out the window when I decided to do the Twin Turbo set up almost 2 years ago. I have been living a Lie............
 
Try and get a hold of, The67fish, He runs ladder bars in his fish and it runs in the 6's i believe. He should be able to help ya out.
 
My buddy designed a tri-4 link for my car.. custom deal.. very similar to what the mustangs have... Tons of fox body rustangs running around in the 8's with this same set up.. we put the coil overs behind the axles. We would have love to run them straight up but room was a limiting factor so we angled them slightly towards the center. They are attached to a welded cross bar that run fame to frame... on the front we did some thing similar to the RMS set up but we ran them from inside out... it imperative that the angle be perfect on these top bars in order to keep the rear from side to side movement.. the top bars are mounted to another cross bar mounted from frame to fame.. I used Hiem joints on everything.. I guess we will see what she does next wk...lol
c62e1ada.jpg

c636fd5d.jpg

3c4cca58.jpg
 
I notice in pictures that these triangulated 4-bar set-ups really pull down on the chassis...or maybe you would say ..."squat". That really makes sense when i see how high the upper bars are pulling from. I guess bite...is bite...as long as you are going forward, but isn't the triangulated (no instant center) set-up more for the road racer...tuning to get the car to get traction for going around corners???

I'm just askin'...my school (old)...4 link or ladder bar, it was all about tuning in the right lenght bar and instant center point....for diifferent track / horsepower applications.
Did that book get thrown out the window with my fax machine?...I never hear /read anyone even mention the aspect of tuning
 
Denny you are correct... but if you want to drive ur hot rod on the street ladder bars and true four links are not user friendly.
 
USCG CHARGER said:
Denny you are correct... but if you want to drive ur hot rod on the street ladder bars and true four links are not user friendly.
Click to expand...

already got that T-shirt...thats why I designed/built mine to be a parrallel 4-bar for street use (like a street rod...rides like a caddy).....and easily re-configure to a 4-link w/ 32",36",40" bars with appx 7-7/8" to 8-1/4" instant center for drag strip tuning (in case I get some action $$$$)

check it out on my build thread (bottom link,page 2).....maybe you were sleepin in that day...so I'll give you a "pass" on that one
 
HemiDenny said:
already got that T-shirt...thats why I designed/built mine to be a parrallel 4-bar for street use (like a street rod...rides like a caddy).....and easily re-configure to a 4-link w/ 32",36",40" bars with appx 7-7/8" to 8-1/4" instant center for drag strip tuning (in case I get some action $$$$)

check it out on my build thread (bottom link,page 2).....maybe you were sleepin in that day...so I'll give you a "pass" on that one
Click to expand...

lol.. nice.. I really enjoy reading ur post... never know which way your heading.. on the same note.. sleeping in is not in my MO... Remember I'm a military man who gets up before the sun comes up and puts in miles and miles before most are getting up for their morning piss.
 
USCG CHARGER said:
lol.. nice.. I really enjoy reading ur post... never know which way your heading.. on the same note.. sleeping in is not in my MO... Remember I'm a military man who gets up before the sun comes up and puts in miles and miles before most are getting up for their morning piss.
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I kinda know what you mean on which way I'm headin'...I never like hidin' in the same hole
 
Its all about instant center boys.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL7R9jE73yM"]Keith Bell Fastest Stock suspension Mustang in the country 7.41 197mph - YouTube[/ame]

This guy has basically the same set up you have Louis. No matter how hard you try you will need to modulate the boost to get it to hook. Most of the tricks to make a drag car hook is in the front end. Everyone runs a coil over in a stock front end Mopar. Not good, they limit travel and change where the springs acts on the car (torsion bar spreads the load to the center of the car). For simplicity Ladder bars are good and work pretty well but DONT RUN BUSHINGS! They make chicken sh&t out of chicken soup. Run Heim joints, its not worth scraping yourself or your Dart off the wall. Leaf springs too but you going to need to buy the Calvert set up and test over and over. Check this one out and its at Fontana which is known for its crap track prep.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQJURouysmM&feature=related"]www.shockertv.com PSCA Outlaw Johnny Coleman quickest leafspring pass in the country - YouTube[/ame]
 
USCG CHARGER said:
My buddy designed a tri-4 link for my car.. custom deal.. very similar to what the mustangs have... Tons of fox body rustangs running around in the 8's with this same set up.. we put the coil overs behind the axles. We would have love to run them straight up but room was a limiting factor so we angled them slightly towards the center. They are attached to a welded cross bar that run fame to frame... on the front we did some thing similar to the RMS set up but we ran them from inside out... it imperative that the angle be perfect on these top bars in order to keep the rear from side to side movement.. the top bars are mounted to another cross bar mounted from frame to fame.. I used Hiem joints on everything.. I guess we will see what she does next wk...lol
Click to expand...

I built my own Triangulated 4 Link. I am going to a 9" because of the power potential of my combo and want something to hook with no hop or wheel chatter. I am tossed.

View attachment IMG_1564-3-1.jpg

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turbodart68 said:
Its all about instant center boys.

Keith Bell Fastest Stock suspension Mustang in the country 7.41 197mph - YouTube

This guy has basically the same set up you have Louis. No matter how hard you try you will need to modulate the boost to get it to hook. Most of the tricks to make a drag car hook is in the front end. Everyone runs a coil over in a stock front end Mopar. Not good, they limit travel and change where the springs acts on the car (torsion bar spreads the load to the center of the car). For simplicity Ladder bars are good and work pretty well but DONT RUN BUSHINGS! They make chicken sh&t out of chicken soup. Run Heim joints, its not worth scraping yourself or your Dart off the wall. Leaf springs too but you going to need to buy the Calvert set up and test over and over. Check this one out and its at Fontana which is known for its crap track prep.

www.shockertv.com PSCA Outlaw Johnny Coleman quickest leafspring pass in the country - YouTube
Click to expand...

Well Chris, those cars straight out Haul ***. There is alot of engineering going on with both those cars just so these guys understand. A whole bunch of suspension tuning required to run with them big dogs. Your not going to bolt it in and have a turn key deal.

Thanks for the Vids!!
 
I'm just askin...so please no bitchin' (unless you want the ol' lit bottlerocket under the $hithouse door)

Aren't you guys concerned about rippin those triangulated upper supports right out of your cars with the high HP forcast??

is it not....the uppers do all the pullin'.....the lowers just locate?
 
HemiDenny said:
I'm just askin...so please no bitchin' (unless you want the ol' lit bottlerocket under the $hithouse door)

Aren't you guys concerned about rippin those triangulated upper supports right out of your cars with the high HP forcast??

is it not....the uppers do all the pullin'.....the lowers just locate?
Click to expand...

Yes that is another concern of mine also this whole damn time, it actually worries me alot. If I keep it with the new 9" set up a Plate will be welded to where the pinion nubber would hit and wrap around the bar, then 2 bars will go from my cage in the trunk through the floor and catch the upper shock/link tower..........

I have a plate welded to the frame that the tube is welded to and then I boxed the whole thing in also on both sides..... But it still worries me for some odd reason it always has.

Junky picture but you get the idea of what I did.....

View attachment IMG_1483-1.jpg
 
when I started my build, i originally planned on a mini-tub....but when I cut out the rear fenderwell/tub and ground to the framerail...i realized how thin that 14 ga metal was in that area. Thats when I decided to get serious...remove the framerails and...well you know the rest of the story. Maybe overkill for a stock "coffee getter'', but experience said...do it right the first time...cause it also costs more to re-do it the way I should have in the beginning.
 
Mad why are your bottom bars not parallel with the deck? I was told that it's a good rule of thumb?

Denny, We welded a 1/4" plate along the rail where both cross bars are.. as far as upper bars rippin out???? well lots of fast cars have this identical set up as I have so I guess we will see.
 
USCG CHARGER said:
Mad why are your bottom bars not parallel with the deck? I was told that it's a good rule of thumb?

Denny, We welded a 1/4" plate along the rail where both cross bars are.. as far as upper bars rippin out???? well lots of fast cars have this identical set up as I have so I guess we will see.
Click to expand...

your right...never seen it or heard of it happening either....you guys must plate 'em up expertly

Carry on, McDuff
 
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