Putting a new cam in my 360

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notadart

notadart

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Hello all!

The adventure with the 360 continues. I think it's time for a new cam.

Motor:
360 block.
J heads
Flat top pistons
Zero decked
Bored .30
Performer RPM intake
Eddy 600 (was running Holley 650 double pumper, but it was too much)
Shitty headers
3:55's out back
Approx 9.5:1 compression
Intended use: Street, non-daily. Lumpy is good and low-end torque would be great.

Recently pulled the stock cam out and dropped in an Enginetech ES665. Not much more aggressive than stock. .409 lift, LSA is 109.5, low duration numbers.
It was great and all, until I blew up 4 lifters after putting less than 100 miles on it. Proper break-in procedure (zinc, 2000rpm for 20 minutes, cooled it off). Lifters were 'new' but had been sitting for a while. Oil pressure was good.

Take a look at the pic of the cam now. Looks like all the hardening is cooked off. Seems really quick to do that, but c'est la vie.

So now I'm looking into other cams. The comp 262XE sounds good. The 268XE sounds better. I'm a little worried about the extra lift (477 vs 462 valve and lobe lift of 318 vs 308) with the zero-deck and flat tops. Am I correct in worrying about that?

20160428_211534.jpg
 
You have something wrong. There is now way the cam should look like that. It's not the cam or lifters at fault when this happens.

You need to get a handle on it before you get a new cam or you'll do it again.

FWIW I don't use zinc additives for break in. I use a dedicated break in oil. There is more to it than zinc.

Call Jim at Racer Brown BEFORE you buy anything. There is much better stuff than the comp you are looking at.
 
Your one lobe looks like it's starting to be wiped. You got other problems. Dump the oil. Check it. Pull the filter. Cut it open and check it. Something tells me you have bits in your oil.

As for cam, there are lots of options out there. I am a fan of the comp xe line (I run a xe274h and like it). But take a look at and talk to everyone, find what fits your intended use and engine best.
 
yellow rose said:
You have something wrong. There is now way the cam should look like that. It's not the cam or lifters at fault when this happens.

You need to get a handle on it before you get a new cam or you'll do it again.

FWIW I don't use zinc additives for break in. I use a dedicated break in oil. There is more to it than zinc.

Call Jim at Racer Brown BEFORE you buy anything. There is much better stuff than the comp you are looking at.
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Just looks like a worn cam, unless I'm not seeing something. Have any more insight into what it could be, or what to look for?
(and it was a proper break-in oil. Most of them contain high levels of zinc, right?)
 
notadart said:
Just looks like a worn cam, unless I'm not seeing something. Have any more insight into what it could be, or what to look for?
(and it was a proper break-in oil. Most of them contain high levels of zinc, right?)
Click to expand...

Then just throw another cam in it. It'll be fine. Rock on brother.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Then just throw another cam in it. It'll be fine. Rock on brother.
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I'm not great at reading internet sarcasm, but I'm gonna assume that's a 'no' on the insight or advice then.

Bad Sport said:
Yeah, but why? Are you getting proper oiling. It might just be me, but the pushrod ends look like they got pretty hot at some point.
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Oil pressure looks good. New gauge too. I agree that they look hot though. Going from memory those were the ones by the busted lifters. Couple of the pushrods were nicely scored up by rubbing on the lifters.
 
If it were I, it would be a total disassemble and cleaning before I did a thing. Gasket sets are cheap. Engine rebuilds are not. Double check bearings and clearances. Double check and clean oil passages. New oil pump!

The amount of lift in that can is squat! No worries. So long as it is properly & degreed in and checked to make sure it is in right, you will be fine. You'll need a LOT more lift than that to actually have a cause for concern.

The cams duration @ .050 is good for the set up. (XE268) look around at other cams as well.
 
notadart said:
I'm not great at reading internet sarcasm, but I'm gonna assume that's a 'no' on the insight or advice then.
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Except we did give you insight and advice. From a couple guys who have lots of experience. And we all said the same thing. Pull the cam and check for other problems. Did you even look at the oil? Great oil pressure is fine if the oil is actually clean. That the cam looks worn for 100 miles. Let's keep in mind you had problems after only 100 miles. There is something else going on. If you ask for advice then say "no it looks fine to me". You're gunna get sarcasm. Just how it goes.
 
Lustle said:
Except we did give you insight and advice. From a couple guys who have lots of experience. And we all said the same thing. Pull the cam and check for other problems. Did you even look at the oil? Great oil pressure is fine if the oil is actually clean. That the cam looks worn for 100 miles. Let's keep in mind you had problems after only 100 miles. There is something else going on. If you ask for advice then say "no it looks fine to me". You're gunna get sarcasm. Just how it goes.
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Exactly. Ask for advice, then trudge on forward ignoring said advice. You get what's comin to you far as I'm concerned.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Exactly. Ask for advice, then trudge on forward ignoring said advice. You get what's comin to you far as I'm concerned.
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woah woah woah. Let's take a step back.

I was saying all I see (given my experience level) is a worn cam. That's the only issue that I can detect. In order to detect any other problems, I'll need the expertise of you guys.

Now that we've got that out of the way...

I did check the oil. Metal in it for sure. Very fine metal powder, but then again, I can see exactly where it came from- worn lifters and a very worn cam. So it came as no surprise.

The old cam that came out exhibited none of those issues- no serious wear, lifters never died on me. New cam went in, and the problems started on the second drive.
 
Very worn at 100 miles. That's telling you a lot.

You got something in there during the cam swap. Either your buddy dropped his pocket change in there or something happened. I'd pull the cam. Check the journals. Check to see if you can find where the shavings came from. Until you know the source of the shavings, there's no point in doing anything else to it. It'll just burn the cam again, or worse.
 
How about a little more info.

Did you use assembly lube on the cam when you installed it?

Are you running valve springs matched to that cam?

What valvetrain, factory stamped, adjustable?
 
I think I would be looking at camshaft oiling via the main and cam bearings. Also check the cylinder head oiling from the cam bearings to the heads and valve gear.

Look at the pushrod ends going into the lifters. They are blue from heat. That might be from where the balls were welded on the ends, but it sure does come up a ways. I would be looking at everything with a magnifying glass. Literally.

If that was my engine, she'd be coming back down to the bare block. JMHO.
 
Bad Sport said:
How about a little more info.

Did you use assembly lube on the cam when you installed it?

Are you running valve springs matched to that cam?

What valvetrain, factory stamped, adjustable?
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I did not use a separate product for assembly. The same break-in oil was used throughout the process.

It was recommended to me that stock springs would be sufficient for that cam.

Factory stamped valvetrain.
 
That's meant to be premixed with the oil you use to first fire your engine.

For the cam and lifters, you want something pretty thick. Almost like a paste so it will stay put on the cam lobes and lifters.
 
Lustle said:
But you didn't coat the cam in assembly lube before putting it in the block? Your cam should be covered in the stuff. Almost dripping with it. Like this:

break-in-lube-engine-assembly-2.jpg
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DING DING DING!

I think we found the problem. Did not use the proper assembly lube. I only used break-in additive. Well **** me sideways.
 
The cam assembly lube is there to protect the lobes and lifters and what not WHILE the engine first fires/runs until there is good oil pressure and coverage there. Oil doesn't instantly get on the cam. It takes a while for it to make its way onto everything and coat it sufficiently. That's where assembly lube comes in.

What cam break in procedure did you use?
 
Lustle said:
The cam assembly lube is there to protect the lobes and lifters and what not WHILE the engine first fires/runs until there is good oil pressure and coverage there. Oil doesn't instantly get on the cam. It takes a while for it to make its way onto everything and coat it sufficiently. That's where assembly lube comes in.

What cam break in procedure did you use?
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Coated the cam, lifters, etc in the oil additive, made sure there was plenty of oil in the valley, etc. and then primed the system to get things pumping before firing, then running at 2k rpm for about 20 minutes.

It sounds like I was lax on the break-in procedure.
 
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