QA1 K-member and Borgeson steering issues

[Swinging 73]

I have a 1973 Dodge Dart Swinger with the 360, headers, and power steering. I installed a QA1 k-member and a Borgeson power steering box and now my steering linkages won't fit. What have others found works for this issue? Everything lined up before the swap with the no named headers. but now it's not even close. Is there a straight pitman arm?

 

[Syleng1]

We need a picture or two. Sadly all I can tell from your post is the box is mounted (welded mount ) in the wrong location or the pitman arm mount is in the wrong location. Both manufacture issues. Any notes from manufacture if you need a different year pitman and idler arms or drag link?

 

[Swinging 73]

Here's my pictures, hope you can see my issue

 

[Dartsun]

I'd contact QA1 and see what they say. I didn't have to change my pitman arm for my borgeson box but also using stock K Frame.

 

[Swinging 73]

Thanks!

 

[340sFastback]

My Borgeson box kept Pitman Arm in same place as original steering box. Is your engine sitting higher then before? Motor mount issue?

 

[Swinging 73]

Not sure if it's any higher, but the drag link is about 3 inches from the bottom of the oil pan! I never measured it when sitting in the original k-member. Also, the k-member is for a 72 dart vs my 73. I'm going to try the 72 pitman arm and drag link pivot.

 

[72bluNblu]

Not sure if it's any higher, but the drag link is about 3 inches from the bottom of the oil pan! I never measured it when sitting in the original k-member. Also, the k-member is for a 72 dart vs my 73. I'm going to try the 72 pitman arm and drag link pivot.

All the ‘72 pitman arms are going to be for a small sector steering box, so I’m pretty sure that’s not gonna work for you if you were reusing your 73+ pitman arm.

You would also need a ‘67-72 drag link to make that work, not just the pitman and idler.

So you swapped in the QA1 K and the Borgeson, and you changed the engine mounts because all of the QA1’s use the biscuit style mounts, right? What engine mounts are your using?

 

[Swinging 73]

I'm using the biscuit style mounts.

 

[Swinging 73]

All the ‘72 pitman arms are going to be for a small sector steering box, so I’m pretty sure that’s not gonna work for you if you were reusing your 73+ pitman arm.

You would also need a ‘67-72 drag link to make that work, not just the pitman and idler.

So you swapped in the QA1 K and the Borgeson, and you changed the engine mounts because all of the QA1’s use the biscuit style mounts, right? What engine mounts are your using?

I guess I'm just going to go back to the factory k-member.

 

[Big.J.007]

Try Reclocking the pitman arm on the gear box, or confirming the gear box is centered.. Looks like that's the main issue

 

[Swinging 73]

I know the pitman arm is not seated all the way on, but, I need at least an inch and thats not going to make it up.

 

[Swinging 73]

If i can find a pitman arm that has the same sized sector but has less of a drop, that would work. Or a different set of headers!

 

[Big.J.007]

73 and later used a different pitman/idler and center link than earlier years. Looks like your pitman arm is new is it possible you purchased an earlier version instead of the correct 73 and later 1

 

[Swinging 73]

73 and later used a different pitman/idler and center link than earlier years. Looks like your pitman arm is new is it possible you purchased an earlier version instead of the correct 73 and later 1

It's a 73+, its identical to the original one.

 

[Big.J.007]

These are all listed as 73 and later both manual and power flavors yet per pics some have different pitches and angles. Maybe a drive to the parts store and some mockup would be beneficial to find which pitch and angle best fits.. The QA1 K member is a factory bolt in, the major wild card is the Borgeson box. GL Report back with your findings.

 

[Swinging 73]

These are all listed as 73 and later both manual and power flavors yet per pics some have different pitches and angles. Maybe a drive to the parts store and some mockup would be beneficial to find which pitch and angle best fits.. The QA1 K member is a factory bolt in, the major wild card is the Borgeson box. GL Report back with your findings.

View attachment 1716438688

That's what I'm going to do.

 

[72bluNblu]

73 and later used a different pitman/idler and center link than earlier years. Looks like your pitman arm is new is it possible you purchased an earlier version instead of the correct 73 and later 1

It’s not possible to accidentally use a 67-72 pitman on a car with 73+ steering. You have to change the center link as well, as the 67-72 pitmans are not compatible with the 73+ center link. That’s before we even know if the steering box he has is large sector, which would mean only a 73+ pitman would fit on the steering box (Borgeson has both large and small sector boxes).

The QA1 K member is a factory bolt in, the major wild card is the Borgeson box. GL Report back with your findings.

Yeah, the QA1 is an aftermarket part just like the Borgeson steering box. It has as least as many opportunities to be different from factory as the Borgeson does.

There are quite a few members running Borgeson boxes here, the steering box definitely doesn’t change the pitman height by 3” in their applications.

The QA1’s only come with biscuit mounts, which 73+ cars didn’t have, so that’s a significant change from factory.

That's what I'm going to do.

Wort a shot. Which biscuit mounts did you buy?

The thing that I see in your pictures is that it appears that the drag link/center link is pretty level. Which would mean the pitman and idler match up, and so does the position of the steering box and idler arm mount. It looks like the engine is just sitting too high.

Now, it’s possible that the K frame is the issue, but again there’s more than a few folks running QA1 K frames and I haven’t heard of this issue. That would leave the engine mounts, which are also new. There are different height biscuit mounts out there.

 

[Swinging 73]

It’s not possible to accidentally use a 67-72 pitman on a car with 73+ steering. You have to change the center link as well, as the 67-72 pitmans are not compatible with the 73+ center link. That’s before we even know if the steering box he has is large sector, which would mean only a 73+ pitman would fit on the steering box (Borgeson has both large and small sector boxes).


Yeah, the QA1 is an aftermarket part just like the Borgeson steering box. It has as least as many opportunities to be different from factory as the Borgeson does.

There are quite a few members running Borgeson boxes here, the steering box definitely doesn’t change the pitman height by 3” in their applications.

The QA1’s only come with biscuit mounts, which 73+ cars didn’t have, so that’s a significant change from factory.


Wort a shot. Which biscuit mounts did you buy?

The thing that I see in your pictures is that it appears that the drag link/center link is pretty level. Which would mean the pitman and idler match up, and so does the position of the steering box and idler arm mount. It looks like the engine is just sitting too high.

Now, it’s possible that the K frame is the issue, but again there’s more than a few folks running QA1 K frames and I haven’t heard of this issue. That would leave the engine mounts, which are also new. There are different height biscuit mounts out there.

The engine only sits about 3/8 of an inch above the steering box, so I can't go to much lower with the mounts.

 

[72bluNblu]

The engine only sits about 3/8 of an inch above the steering box, so I can't go to much lower with the mounts.

View attachment 1716438752

What steering box was in the car before? The Borgeson is physically smaller than the original power steering box and similar in size with the manual steering box but it is just a different shape, so it doesn't make more clearance everywhere.

It seems to me like your headers just aren't compatible with the Borgeson box, because if you fix one of the things you have a clearance issue with you'll just have an issue with something else. The steering and idler mount on the QA1 K frame can't be raised with respect to the engine, because that would raise the Borgeson box into the engine/headers. The engine can't be lowered with respect to the K frame because that would lower the engine/headers into the Borgeson box. They don't make pitman arms with different drops for these cars, so the only difference in height there would be manufacturer to manufacturer and that difference should be relatively small (not enough to solve your problem). And if they did you'd still need to find an idler arm with the same drop, otherwise your drag link wouldn't be level.

Unless you just have the wrong Borgeson box and somehow there's another one that has a different distance between the mounting holes and the pitman arm. But that would need to be a different case, not just a mounting location difference with respect to the same box, because otherwise it would just move the whole box up or down and that would have the same issue with either putting the box into the engine/headers or the steering linkage into the headers.

So the question is, what headers are guys running with the Borgeson box?

There are some clearance differences between the 68-72 steering stuff vs the '73+, but you'd need to change the pitman, idler, and center link to all be '68-72. That would flip the center link from under the pitman/idler to above them, BUT, the pitman and idler change shape too so the center link itself doesn't change it's location under the car that much. It puts the castle nuts on top instead of underneath, but, it puts the arms underneath so it's just a trade off really.

 

[Dartsun]

I'm running Doug's 453 headers in my B body that had stock power steering stock K frame small block. Replaced with borg box 0 issues fitting.

 

[Swinging 73]

What steering box was in the car before? The Borgeson is physically smaller than the original power steering box and similar in size with the manual steering box but it is just a different shape, so it doesn't make more clearance everywhere.

It seems to me like your headers just aren't compatible with the Borgeson box, because if you fix one of the things you have a clearance issue with you'll just have an issue with something else. The steering and idler mount on the QA1 K frame can't be raised with respect to the engine, because that would raise the Borgeson box into the engine/headers. The engine can't be lowered with respect to the K frame because that would lower the engine/headers into the Borgeson box. They don't make pitman arms with different drops for these cars, so the only difference in height there would be manufacturer to manufacturer and that difference should be relatively small (not enough to solve your problem). And if they did you'd still need to find an idler arm with the same drop, otherwise your drag link wouldn't be level.

Unless you just have the wrong Borgeson box and somehow there's another one that has a different distance between the mounting holes and the pitman arm. But that would need to be a different case, not just a mounting location difference with respect to the same box, because otherwise it would just move the whole box up or down and that would have the same issue with either putting the box into the engine/headers or the steering linkage into the headers.

So the question is, what headers are guys running with the Borgeson box?

There are some clearance differences between the 68-72 steering stuff vs the '73+, but you'd need to change the pitman, idler, and center link to all be '68-72. That would flip the center link from under the pitman/idler to above them, BUT, the pitman and idler change shape too so the center link itself doesn't change it's location under the car that much. It puts the castle nuts on top instead of underneath, but, it puts the arms underneath so it's just a trade off really.

It had a stock factory box, the only change is the k-member and the Borgeson box

 

[340sFastback]

I run TTI headers with Borgeson box no clearance issues. Small block, stock k-frame, stock motor mounts.

 

[Big.J.007]

Install the factory box on QA1 and see how everything looks vs the Borgeson.. If everything looks good, it's the Borgeson.. If everything Still looks AFU then it's the QA1 causing fitment issues.

 

[Swinging 73]

I'm running Doug's 453 headers in my B body that had

I run TTI headers with Borgeson box no clearance issues. Small block, stock k-frame, stock motor mounts.

Is anyone running shorty headers? If do, which ones?