j par
Well-hung Member
yeah I was just wondering if it may cause some integrity problems
rearend break-in ? ?
- Thread starter j par
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yeah I was just wondering if it may cause some integrity problems
j par
Well-hung Member
exactly!!!! Your sole purpose was to be an agitator. Witch I get it because I do the same from time to time.
just know your place - i.e. know who your messin with ! Darla LOL:happy1:
j par
Well-hung Member
90 % strip 10 % street so the little bit I drive on the street I just use av gas so not contaminate for race day.
compression ? 190 to 200 psi i would assume you would ether need it or not ? I doubt your compression changes from the street to the track??
Oh believe me, I know exactly who I'm messin with. lol
stroked340
Well-Known Member
No your compression doesn't change..the question i asked was what is your compression ratio??..if its not something like 13 to 1 you don't need race fuel..my 11.9 to 1 416 ran just fine on 93 and ran basically the same numbers on race fuel,if your engine doesn't need the octane your just wasting money
j par
Well-hung Member
Here's the true back story on race fuel - when my girlfriend seen how my face lit up when I talked about the 72 duster I had 15 years ago she said here's three grand get started ! A month later I found it two hours away. "She said!" It should be a four-speed ! Me? Okay! I find one in Seattle. My work was very busy and she said I'll drive to Seattle. I say i want duel quad tunnel ram ? She says you should get it! I say i want to sell my motorhome to rebuild the motor ? She said okay! (All of the while cooking, cleaning, and making my favorite homemade desserts!) So when she said i would like you to use race fuel only to get unquestionably good Proformance and I like the way it smells- after all that, really who would argue !??
The wedding is august 22nd at 1pm !
Locomotion
Well-Known Member
Does she have a single sister that's anything like her??? [-o<
j par
Well-hung Member
exactly ! !
The break in requirement for a racer is impossible. I bought a complete 8-3/4 center section, 5.13 gear, from Ring Head Randy some years ago. I didn't like his ink marks regarding set up, but ran it anyways. The rear end case was extremely hot to the touch after the first run. And second. And third, etc..
The gear was smashed to smithereens on run number 4. When I called, the question was "did you break it in for 500 highway miles?" Of course not. I had to eat it.
The key is to feel the housing after each run. If it is hot, it will not live long. I since have set up my own gears and have not had a problem. Forget what a manufacturer says. You won't win with that. Just make sure it is set up correctly. You're on your own as a racer.
The gear was smashed to smithereens on run number 4. When I called, the question was "did you break it in for 500 highway miles?" Of course not. I had to eat it.
The key is to feel the housing after each run. If it is hot, it will not live long. I since have set up my own gears and have not had a problem. Forget what a manufacturer says. You won't win with that. Just make sure it is set up correctly. You're on your own as a racer.
j par
Well-hung Member
Thank you for your experience !
my best precaution was taking it to again the best differential place in town. and Mike at patent differential walked me through everything that he did and was saying something about .005 backlash.
my next precaution is tapping a hole in the bottom of the differential for easy draining.
skrews
Well-Known Member
Same here.
moper
Well-Known Member
The heat is not necessarilly an indicator of a problem. It's run on the jack stands because the gear teeth have to develop a wear pattern, which causes heat. The more weight it has to push, and/or the more power into it, the hotter things get. Generally it will be hot e nough to make it uncomfortable to you hold your hand on it for more than 4-5 seconds during this 15 minute period. If it's burning your hand after a second something's wrong.
j par
Well-hung Member
Thank you moper, that makes sense to me .
Nice post, I would agree to some extent although I don't believe heat should be present at all. As I recall, I ran that gear on the jack stands too in an attempt to break it in. The cam lope of the engine seemed to rattle the rear gears so bad to the extent I thought it wasn't worth it. In other words, I thought it needed a load to run in properly. Might have been because the gear wasn't set up correctly.
I still think heat is a primary indicator of impending failure. The gear I lost was from a rear end housing that felt pretty freakin hot after 3 runs. The ones I built later with success only exhibited a warm feel after the 1/4 mile. I think there's something to heat as a warning that something ain't right.
stroked340
Well-Known Member
Once AGAIN what is your compression ratio???
My gear guy said to run it on the stands for about 5 minutes, let it cool overnight
Drive it for about 5 miles, let it cool overnight.
Take it for a cruise for about 10 minutes, let it cool overnight.
All times take it easy on the car, accelerate lightly, and decelerate lightly.
Go run the s**t out of it.
As for the drain plug, just drill it for 1/4" NPT off to the passenger side to clear the ring gear, the housings are thick, no bung required, only run the tap in 1/2 way because pipe threads are tapered, if you go too deep it will not seal.
Drive it for about 5 miles, let it cool overnight.
Take it for a cruise for about 10 minutes, let it cool overnight.
All times take it easy on the car, accelerate lightly, and decelerate lightly.
Go run the s**t out of it.
As for the drain plug, just drill it for 1/4" NPT off to the passenger side to clear the ring gear, the housings are thick, no bung required, only run the tap in 1/2 way because pipe threads are tapered, if you go too deep it will not seal.
j par
Well-hung Member
E=stroked340;1970829911]Once AGAIN what is your compression ratio???[/QUOTE]
Not positive 11.2 ? With 70cc heads and flat deck it's supposed to be 10.8 , but it's .010 out of the hole so?
Compression 188-200psi.
I forgot ? What does this have to do with rearend break-in ?
Not positive 11.2 ? With 70cc heads and flat deck it's supposed to be 10.8 , but it's .010 out of the hole so?
Compression 188-200psi.
I forgot ? What does this have to do with rearend break-in ?
Not positive 11.2 ? With 70cc heads and flat deck it's supposed to be 10.8 , but it's .010 out of the hole so?
Compression 188-200psi.
I forgot ? What does this have to do with rearend break-in ?[/QUOTE]
A blind man could see where his response came from. Look at your response he responded to. You brought up fuel and he responded. Why can't you just answer the question without all the extra hooha?
j par
Well-hung Member
RustyRatRod;1970830334]Not positive 11.2 ? With 70cc heads and flat deck it's supposed to be 10.8 , but it's .010 out of the hole so?
Compression 188-200psi.
I forgot ? What does this have to do with rearend break-in ?[/QUOTE]
A blind man could see where his response came from. Look at your response he responded to. You brought up fuel and he responded. Why can't you just answer the question without all the extra hooha?[/QUOTE]
First - good evening triple-R ! How's the family ?
Second - how much hooha is exceptable ? (If any?)
Third - do you at any point plan to ad anything substantial to this thread ?
Fourth - I wasn't asking you! LOL
fifth - I'm old and i forget about stuff
sixth - where was I ??
Seventh - where am I !!!!
Compression 188-200psi.
I forgot ? What does this have to do with rearend break-in ?[/QUOTE]
A blind man could see where his response came from. Look at your response he responded to. You brought up fuel and he responded. Why can't you just answer the question without all the extra hooha?[/QUOTE]
First - good evening triple-R ! How's the family ?
Second - how much hooha is exceptable ? (If any?)
Third - do you at any point plan to ad anything substantial to this thread ?
Fourth - I wasn't asking you! LOL
fifth - I'm old and i forget about stuff
sixth - where was I ??
Seventh - where am I !!!!
famous bob
mopar misfit
A blind man could see where his response came from. Look at your response he responded to. You brought up fuel and he responded. Why can't you just answer the question without all the extra hooha?[/QUOTE]
First - good evening triple-R ! How's the family ?
Second - how much hooha is exceptable ? (If any?)
Third - do you at any point plan to ad anything substantial to this thread ?
Fourth - I wasn't asking you! LOL
fifth - I'm old and i forget about stuff
sixth - where was I ??
Seventh - where am I !!!![/QUOTE]
HERE YOU IS !!
j par
Well-hung Member
I'm sorry I usually try to stay away from hi jinx on the racing forum because at these speeds- well you know . I'm not sure I've ever heard triple-R talk about a current race car? I do see him all over the forum ?
Of course helping when he can, but
Of course helping when he can, but
stroked340
Well-Known Member
Not positive 11.2 ? With 70cc heads and flat deck it's supposed to be 10.8 , but it's .010 out of the hole so?
Compression 188-200psi.
I forgot ? What does this have to do with rearend break-in ?[/QUOTE]
Has nothing to do with your rearend i was refering to you using race fuel with 10 to 1 comp you don't need it i'm willing to bet your car runs the same numbers on pump gas..but it does smell nice and its your money so carry on
stroked340
Well-Known Member
Back to the original question when i put my 3.91 suregrip from Randys in my car some 7 years ago.i followed his instructions of heat cycling the unit..and it has performed flawlessly to this day in my buddys dart(sold the unit to him)..now when i put the 4.30 spool in my duster break-in was done down the 1/4 no issues so far after 3 seasons..
moper
Well-Known Member
How I understand it when the teeth have only been lapped together (prior to break in) the oil is not much of a help. The tooth surface is too rough. The breakin allows the teeth to actually wear, and develop a flatter surface, which allows the oil to form a wedge for "next time". If there's too much pressure, it creates too much localized heat, and the oil can't protect anything. That localized heat on the mating surfaces of the teeth and the rollers of the bearings goes right into the oil, which is what you feel. They're usually hot to the touch after the first cycle but after the 2nd they should not get much beyond warm to the touch.
I can understand the big cam, but you could clear it out by running it in 2nd gear - its' not the engine rpm that matters - but the driveshaft speed. I also don't advise simply letting off, but use the brakes to slow the tires. Not defending or commending Randy's . They have to cover themselves because there are a lot of people that will blame them for mistakes made by the car owner. At the shop we would just do the break in so if the guy wanted to go sideways leaving the parking lot the gears were safe to do so... Some people will always do what they feel like, regardless of instructions to the contrary..lol. I will always warm up the car and driveline on jackstands before I make a pass if it's just off the trailer. Like anything else - operating temp will run faster.
damnimcooltom
Too Cool For School
Do we really need to break in a new gear set? I have heard many people say "When I bought my new truck, no one ever told me to break in the ring & pinion." Whenever we are blessed enough to afford a new vehicle, we take it easy on the engine for the first few hundred miles. While we are pampering the engine (probably for the last time ever), the ring & pinion set goes along for the ride and gets a chance to break in before we hammer the throttle.
In most stock vehicles with stock tires there is seldom a risk of a burned gear set. For those of us who modify and use our trucks, there many situations that can contribute to burned gear syndrome. Motorhomes, towing, tall tires, and high numeric gear ratios (4.56 & up) can all generate a lot of heat and cause the gear oil to break down. The greatest damage to a new gear set results from running for ten minutes or more during the first 500 miles when the oil is very hot. Any heavy use or overloading while the oil is extremely hot will cause it to break down and allow irreversible damage to the ring & pinion.
In order to make them run cooler and quieter, new gears are lapped at the factory. However, they are not lapped under the same pressures that driving creates. The loads generated while driving force any microscopic high spots on the gear teeth back into the surface of the metal. This is called "work hardening". Work hardening is similar to forging in the way that it compresses the metal molecules into a very compact and hard formation. This can only be accomplished if the metal surfaces are lubricated and the gear temperature stays cool enough that the molecular structure does not change. If the temperature of the metal gets hot enough to change the molecular structure, it will soften the surface instead of hardening it. This may seen like a balancing act, but it all happens easily and passively as long as the oil keeps the gear cool while it is breaking in. Some of the synthetic oils on the market today can help a gear set live longer. I've had great success with Red Line ®, Torco ®, and Richmond Gear ® synthetic gear oils. These oils will continue to lubricate at temperatures where many crude oils break down.
Even with synthetic oils, I still recommend the following procedure for breaking in a new gear set: After driving the first 15 to 20 miles, stop and let the differential cool before proceeding. Keep the vehicle at speeds below 60 mph for the first 100 miles. I also recommend putting at least 500 miles on the new gear set before heavy use or towing. During the first 45 miles of towing, it helps to go about 15 miles at a time before stopping to let the differential cool for 15 minutes before continuing. This is necessary because not all of the gear tooth is making contact until it is heavily loaded. When towing, the teeth flex to contact completely, and cause the previously unloaded portion of the teeth to touch and work harden. It is very easy to damage the ring & pinion by overloading before the teeth are broken-in. If you take it easy on a new ring & pinion and keep it full of high quality oil, it will last a lot longer.
With regards to limited slip additives, I have found that using too much additive can lead to premature gear wear. Use just enough to keep the limited slip from chattering but not more than 4 oz for every 2 qts of oil. It is a good idea to change the gear oil after the first 500 miles in order to remove any metal particles or phosphorus coating that has come from the new gear set. This is cheap insurance and a good time to discover any problems before they grow too big.
http://www.ringpinion.com/Technical...t/Parts/RingAndPinions//New_Gear_Break-In.inc
In most stock vehicles with stock tires there is seldom a risk of a burned gear set. For those of us who modify and use our trucks, there many situations that can contribute to burned gear syndrome. Motorhomes, towing, tall tires, and high numeric gear ratios (4.56 & up) can all generate a lot of heat and cause the gear oil to break down. The greatest damage to a new gear set results from running for ten minutes or more during the first 500 miles when the oil is very hot. Any heavy use or overloading while the oil is extremely hot will cause it to break down and allow irreversible damage to the ring & pinion.
In order to make them run cooler and quieter, new gears are lapped at the factory. However, they are not lapped under the same pressures that driving creates. The loads generated while driving force any microscopic high spots on the gear teeth back into the surface of the metal. This is called "work hardening". Work hardening is similar to forging in the way that it compresses the metal molecules into a very compact and hard formation. This can only be accomplished if the metal surfaces are lubricated and the gear temperature stays cool enough that the molecular structure does not change. If the temperature of the metal gets hot enough to change the molecular structure, it will soften the surface instead of hardening it. This may seen like a balancing act, but it all happens easily and passively as long as the oil keeps the gear cool while it is breaking in. Some of the synthetic oils on the market today can help a gear set live longer. I've had great success with Red Line ®, Torco ®, and Richmond Gear ® synthetic gear oils. These oils will continue to lubricate at temperatures where many crude oils break down.
Even with synthetic oils, I still recommend the following procedure for breaking in a new gear set: After driving the first 15 to 20 miles, stop and let the differential cool before proceeding. Keep the vehicle at speeds below 60 mph for the first 100 miles. I also recommend putting at least 500 miles on the new gear set before heavy use or towing. During the first 45 miles of towing, it helps to go about 15 miles at a time before stopping to let the differential cool for 15 minutes before continuing. This is necessary because not all of the gear tooth is making contact until it is heavily loaded. When towing, the teeth flex to contact completely, and cause the previously unloaded portion of the teeth to touch and work harden. It is very easy to damage the ring & pinion by overloading before the teeth are broken-in. If you take it easy on a new ring & pinion and keep it full of high quality oil, it will last a lot longer.
With regards to limited slip additives, I have found that using too much additive can lead to premature gear wear. Use just enough to keep the limited slip from chattering but not more than 4 oz for every 2 qts of oil. It is a good idea to change the gear oil after the first 500 miles in order to remove any metal particles or phosphorus coating that has come from the new gear set. This is cheap insurance and a good time to discover any problems before they grow too big.
http://www.ringpinion.com/Technical...t/Parts/RingAndPinions//New_Gear_Break-In.inc
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