Ron Francis Wiring help 2 !

[KitCarlson]

Perhaps I can help with the logic behind the Mopar ignition switch from an engineers perspective. IGN1 supplies 12V to the ballast resistor that feeds the coil +, when in run position, but not in start position. In start position, IGN2 provides 12V directly to coil + when in start position, but not in run position. Why? The IGN2, provides full voltage to coil to aid starting with depressed battery voltage. It may also lessen alternator load when starting because IGN1 is back fed via ballast resistor. IGN1 supplies the alternator field. Since cranking is at low speed, the alternator load reduction, may only save a few amps, mostly due to reduced field current.

The ACC, is off when in start, to avoid electrical noise for radio when cranking.

START contact that goes to start relay, to switch starter solenoid is separate. It is similar to IGN2, but separate because, if back fed by IGN1 via ballast the starter would stay engaged after starting ...

A large diode could be used from START, to coil + (cathode to coil +) in the case IGN2 is not available. It would drop voltage 0.7V, and unless properly sized for current, and reverse voltage, it may be prone to failure. A failed short, most common, would result in starter run on.

My humble opinion, RF needs to better document what they sell. It seems they market a pile of wire, and fuse box at a huge mark up.

So it sounds like the RF kit has a non mopar ignition switch.

 

[67Dart273]

something is wrong with the aftermarket switch.

Aftermarket switch? Is this a generic ignition switch or one which is SUPPOSED to be a drop in replacement for your Mopar?

if it is a direct replacement, and has a terminal labled IGN2 which is "dead" THAT IS the problem

 

[Frank1970]

Yes the swich is supposed to be for 70 charger but also for many other cars. The wire colors match my original switch, they were not labeled on the switch

 

[Frank1970]

Perhaps I can help with the logic behind the Mopar ignition switch from an engineers perspective. IGN1 supplies 12V to the ballast resistor that feeds the coil +, when in run position, but not in start position. In start position, IGN2 provides 12V directly to coil + when in start position, but not in run position. Why? The IGN2, provides full voltage to coil to aid starting with depressed battery voltage. It may also lessen alternator load when starting because IGN1 is back fed via ballast resistor. IGN1 supplies the alternator field. Since cranking is at low speed, the alternator load reduction, may only save a few amps, mostly due to reduced field current.

The ACC, is off when in start, to avoid electrical noise for radio when cranking.

START contact that goes to start relay, to switch starter solenoid is separate. It is similar to IGN2, but separate because, if back fed by IGN1 via ballast the starter would stay engaged after starting ...

A large diode could be used from START, to coil + (cathode to coil +) in the case IGN2 is not available. It would drop voltage 0.7V, and unless properly sized for current, and reverse voltage, it may be prone to failure. A failed short, most common, would result in starter run on.

My humble opinion, RF needs to better document what they sell. It seems they market a pile of wire, and fuse box at a huge mark up.

So it sounds like the RF kit has a non mopar ignition switch.

THanks for that, I rather not use a diode thats why i was hoping IGN2 directly to the coil would work, it should if once the key is in start, this lead should be hot. But for some reason it not, either the wires are mixed up or that lead is broken in the switch. I tested the lead coming off the switch. Maybe ACC and IGN2 feeds are reveresed in the switch, i have not tested ACC yet.

I may just be that jeep relay so i dont need to use a diode lead. Does anyone know the part number or which make/model and year i would need to look up?

 

[67Dart273]

Dammit I outlined the switch operation earlier in this thread. (Post no 2) Please go read it and check out the switch. If the switch does not work properly REPLACE it. Those switches have several contacts inside. If one set does not work it is LIKELY that other damage is present internally, that is, pieces are waltzing around in there.

 

[Frank1970]

Dammit I outlined the switch operation earlier in this thread. (Post no 2) Please go read it and check out the switch. If the switch does not work properly REPLACE it. Those switches have several contacts inside. If one set does not work it is LIKELY that other damage is present internally, that is, pieces are waltzing around in there.

I don't think you read what I'm writing. I know how the switch works i don't think you understand the problem, or what I'm running. I don't appreciate rudeness, it's not necessary. You should not write posts with a commanding tone, it's not appropiate, we don't know each other. If you have a problem or you are frustrated with a post just don't respond it's not helpful.

Anyway, i tested the ign 2 lead at the switch and it's only sending 10v.

This is not what I expected when joining the biggest mopar forum on the internet.

 

[KitCarlson]

Frank,

You are impossible to help. We tell you the way things work, then you wish for only IGN2 to work at coil. Then your comment about sending 10V, makes no sense. Measuring voltage is not a good way to measure continuity unless there is also current. Meters are very high impedance, so the grease inside, or you fingers could be what makes the meter read 10V. IGN2 switches "on" only when cranking....

Perhaps check with Ron Francis. I am done trying to help.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Lawdy. And I thought I was hard headed.

 

[67Dart273]

I don't think you read what I'm writing. I know how the switch works i don't think you understand the problem, or what I'm running. I don't appreciate rudeness, it's not necessary. You should not write posts with a commanding tone, it's not appropiate, we don't know each other. If you have a problem or you are frustrated with a post just don't respond it's not helpful.

Anyway, i tested the ign 2 lead at the switch and it's only sending 10v.

This is not what I expected when joining the biggest mopar forum on the internet.

You have your wish. You are on your own. I've tried to explain this and you simply refuse to listen. We have NO idea what you are doing.

 

[crackedback]

Lawdy. And I thought I was hard headed.

Maybe we can have an annual "RRR Hard Headed Post of the Year" award. I like it!

As mentioned, a test light would go a long way to figuring this out.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Maybe we can have an annual "RRR Hard Headed Post of the Year" award. I like it!

As mentioned, a test light would go a long way to figuring this out.

Hell yeah. On both counts.

 

[Frank1970]

Maybe we can have an annual "RRR Hard Headed Post of the Year" award. I like it!

As mentioned, a test light would go a long way to figuring this out.

I did test it during crank many times and it consistantly read 10V while yellow read 12v.

My only question was if IGN 2 is HOT during crank and its a bypass of the ballast then why wouldnt that fire up my coil when running that lead straight to the coil. The reason why from what iam seeing during CRANK/start position on the key the IGN2 lead is only reading 10V consistantly. With the key in run - IGN1 is 12v, with the key in ACC - 12V, with the key in start - yellow lead -12V, IGN 2 reads 10V. I repeated this 10 times, exactly the same readings each time.

Its funny that folks are angry with me wanting to learn, its not about being hard headed, its about asking questions to learn, i see that is not what its about here. I am on many other forums, for many years, even when i worked on chevys and never encountered such hostility towards a poster, yet alone a new poster to this site.

67 dart yes explained it well but seemed to miss my points that iam not running any original wirings or bulkheads, nothing is original. So all i have is leads coming off the IGN switch which are about a foot long or so, now i need to figure out (which i did) where to connect with RF kit.

I thought forums were designed for discussion and listening to what the poster is asking rather than just saying what you think he is asking.

Tying IGN 1 and 2 together makes no sense at all when it comes to my set up, with original wiring, yes it makes sense. The RF kit is completly different than what you all are using. But its funny because the only reason why i joined is because 67 dart said in an old post " JUST EXTEND IGN 2 DIRECTLY TO THE COIL AND BE DONE WITH IT! WHY DIDNT RON FRANCIS SUGGESTS THIS FROM THE BEGINNING"

I do know what iam doing belive it or not, i many not be the best writer and should not be critized for that, IGN2 reads 10V is correct, i dont know why and iam not asking you to answer it.

I appreciate the idea of using a jeep relay which i did, works well.

Ive been nothing but cordial on this site with all of my posts, some of you come back with frustrated/angry answers are the real hard heads here.

 

[KitCarlson]

Bless your heart.
Please try to separate your wants for IGN2, from the true reality. You have been told numerous times from good helpful people that know, and have experience. It is up to you to follow the advice.

 

[Frank1970]

Frank,

You are impossible to help. We tell you the way things work, then you wish for only IGN2 to work at coil. Then your comment about sending 10V, makes no sense. Measuring voltage is not a good way to measure continuity unless there is also current. Meters are very high impedance, so the grease inside, or you fingers could be what makes the meter read 10V. IGN2 switches "on" only when cranking....

Perhaps check with Ron Francis. I am done trying to help.

There is current, iam not just measuring continuity, i turn the key, full 12V at Batt lead, full 12V on start lead, 12V when key is in RUN on IGN 1. 10V reads when key is in start and i test IGN 2. The car is hot and cranking, i have full power to the ign switch while iam testing.

Not sure what you mean, exactly what you said about IGN 2 is correct, it supplies 12V during start i agreed and never challenged that, all i was doing was feeding that lead to the coil, the same way it is set up in the original wiring harness.


What is with you guys on this site with silly comments, "iam impossible to help" ? I think this is the rudest forum ive ever been on and ive been on many forums.

 

[KitCarlson]

In order to help you, you must help yourself. You have been told correctly, by a few that IGN2, provides ignition power when cranking, but in run it does not. IGN1 provides power in run. You seem to be fixated on using only IGN2, so you have what you want, but it does not work. It is totally up to you. Please do not blame us for your failure to use our help.

I stand correct, you are impossible to help, I am not being rude just honest. The correct information you need to solve your problem has been suggested by others and myself, in many different ways. Feel free to use them, proving my statement is wrong is good and OK. It is all up to you.

 

[famous bob]

In order to help you, you must help yourself. You have been told correctly, by a few that IGN2, provides ignition power when cranking, but in run it does not. IGN1 provides power in run. You seem to be fixated on using only IGN2, so you have what you want, but it does not work. It is totally up to you. Please do not blame us for your failure to use our help.

I stand correct, you are impossible to help, I am not being rude just honest. The correct information you need to solve your problem has been suggested by others and myself, in many different ways. Feel free to use them, proving my statement is wrong is good and OK. It is all up to you.

:banghead:
first , let me state, I`m not even able to keep up w/ you guys on the elec. end of things, or this discussion. but, when I rewired my car w/ a EZ wiring universal kit off ebay, I had to tie 3 wires together at the ignition switch. Sean at EZ wireing advised it to me when I had a problem w/ cranking the engine. that being said I don`t remember why as it`s been too long ago, but it took all 3 to make it work on my set up. fast 2.0 f.i.-msd6, no ballast resistor, one wire alternator, battery in trunk. maybe this will give you something else to think about.??????????bob