SBM Rocker Arm Comparison

[Earlie A]

I’ll derail my own thread. I’d like to hear people’s experiences with no bushing (aluminum) vs bronze bushing vs needle bearing rockers. I’ve seen broken solid aluminum rockers, worn out bronze bushings and heard of failed needle bearings. Is there one style you absolutely will not use, and why?

 

[NC Engine Builder]

I personally like a bushed steel rocker. I never use a needle bearing on a steel shaft, and not a big fan of aluminum unless it's a mild cam with low spring loads. Just my worthless opinion!

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

Was the installed valve height the same between the different heads ? That would affect the rocker tip location.

Most rockers will center with the valve height somehwere between 1.907 & 1.937

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

I’ll derail my own thread. I’d like to hear people’s experiences with no bushing (aluminum) vs bronze bushing vs needle bearing rockers. I’ve seen broken solid aluminum rockers, worn out bronze bushings and heard of failed needle bearings. Is there one style you absolutely will not use, and why?

The ebay and Ohio crankshaft brand stuff, the issue is the race wearing out in short time. To me they're race pieces and a have a shorter service life. Buy the correct shafts too.
Bushed are nice. I have MP bushed steel rockers, the work great and last. I don't think I'll ever run an aluminum on the shaft rocker...no thanks

 

[Bewy]

An alum rocker is already a weak link in the system & boring them out to take needle rollers makes them even weaker....Same with bronze bush but not as bad. I would run the alum direct on the steel shaft, being careful with torquing the shaft mounting bolts not to over-torque & cause a squashed, out of round shaft.

 

[Earlie A]

The ebay and Ohio crankshaft brand stuff, the issue is the race wearing out in short time. To me they're race pieces and a have a shorter service life. Buy the correct shafts too.
Bushed are nice. I have MP bushed steel rockers, the work great and last. I don't think I'll ever run an aluminum on the shaft rocker...no thanks

Any idea where the Ohio crankshaft rockers were manufactured? I would bet the ebay stuff is China.

 

[Ant]

How is the contact with the factory 273 adjustable rockers?

 

[Earlie A]

How is the contact with the factory 273 adjustable rockers?

I don’t have any of those. Maybe someone else can help. I would guess they would be much like the factory stamped steel ones.

 

[PRH]

I try to use rockers that are commensurate with the overall level of effort of the rest of the build.
In other words……no Jesel’s or T&D’s on a build with a factory 340 cam…….and no Chinese aluminum rockers on something with a .650 roller and springs over 600lbs open(not for me anyway).

Most rockers can be used with some level of success if they’re used within their design limits.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

Any idea where the Ohio crankshaft rockers were manufactured? I would bet the ebay stuff is China.

Good question. They were sold by Ohio crankshaft.
I kind of think the rocker bodies aren't really any issue, nor the roller tips though some have tighter tolerances.. I'm thinking it's just the quality of that roller bearing. There's many part numbers for that same size under different manufacturers. The race is the problem or end to them.
I have a set of red ones I've not run yet that I picked up off of eBay a long time ago. I may try them out. I'm not really worried about losing needle bearings , for youre gpong to hear noise 1st way before.. and your side clearance at .010 isnt going to allow them to come out even if they could get by the races shoulder.. and that is not going to happen if you have the appropriate rocker shafts to run with needle bearing 'thick .250 wall induction hardened '

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

How is the contact with the factory 273 adjustable rockers?

Ill get back to you.

 

[Dartswinger70]

This may be very old info but I recall the stamped stock rockers had different machining for the difference in 318 to 340 valve spring retainer size etc. in other words the 318 rockers wouldn't work on 340 360 valve spring retainers the difference is in the machining and size of the rocker etc. the 318 rocker may rub on the retainer etc.

 

[Ant]

This may be very old info but I recall the stamped stock rockers had different machining for the difference in 318 to 340 valve spring retainer size etc. in other words the 318 rockers wouldn't work on 340 360 valve spring retainers the difference is in the machining and size of the rocker etc. the 318 rocker may rub on the retainer etc.

The rockers had been ground for clearance. I think the 340 springs are a little bit wider. I'll have to check my mopar engines performance book, but they do mention grinding the stock rockers for clearance, which is something I asked about in the past and did myself.

Should I grind the steel rockers?

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

I'd rather find a spring thats a smaller diameter, there are plenty out there .

Seems like anything bigger than 1.437 or 1.44 has potential to interfere

 

[Ironmike]

When I had the TF heads (briefly) Mike at B3 set me up with PRW's and the proper geometry kit. As usual from him, perfection.

I ditched the TF's for a much better flowing head. Still using PRW's. I don't care where they're made. They're steel and bushed. .640/.640 solid roller with Pac springs.

 

[MacDogma]

When I had the TF heads (briefly) Mike at B3 set me up with PRW's and the proper geometry kit. As usual from him, perfection.

I ditched the TF's for a much better flowing head. Still using PRW's. I don't care where they're made. They're steel and bushed. .640/.640 solid roller with Pac springs.

So the PRW's don't have any clearance issues with the TF heads? I have the PRW 1.5 rockers and was planning on getting the TF heads.
Also, how much are the correction kits from B3? Thanks

 

[Earlie A]

There should be no clearance issues with the PRW rocker on a TF head as long as spring diameter is under 1.55” or so. The rocker shaft on the TF head has been relocated and is farther away from the valves than factory iron heads or the Edelbrock style heads. In my opinion the PRW rocker is a little too short for the TF heads as shown in the pictures of post #1, but may work fine.

Give Mike a call or email. He can talk you through the options. Correction kit may not even be needed. TF head is better OOTB than most others.

 

[nckennyb]

I’ll derail my own thread. I’d like to hear people’s experiences with no bushing (aluminum) vs bronze bushing vs needle bearing rockers. I’ve seen broken solid aluminum rockers, worn out bronze bushings and heard of failed needle bearings. Is there one style you absolutely will not use, and why?

My older brother and I both have the old Crane aluminum rockers and we were racing pretty regular there for a while. Both of us have J heads and both running the .509 - 292 Direct Connection camshaft. We bought a 1.5 ratio set and a 1.6 ratio set and each of us has 1.5s on the intake and 1.6s on the exhaust. Neither of us are running any super high spring pressures though but we've never had an issue with the non bushed aluminum Crane rockers.

 

[PRH]

Crane sold a pile of Mopar rockers back in the day.

I can only think of one build where they were problematic.

 

[tubbedamx]

I personally like a bushed steel rocker. I never use a needle bearing on a steel shaft, and not a big fan of aluminum unless it's a mild cam with low spring loads. Just my worthless opinion!

That said, who’s American made bushed steel roller tip rocker do you prefer? I’m shopping for a set.

Thanks

 

[NC Engine Builder]

That said, who’s American made bushed steel roller tip rocker do you prefer? I’m shopping for a set.

Thanks

Good question. All my customers have been using a prw steel rocker, or the equivalent from liberty performance parts. Neither of which are usa made to my knowledge.

 

[Ironmike]

The PRW's are actually pretty decent. So far. Make sure your geometry is right. Shim them proper, and you're good. I run over 600PSI spring pressures, open, this is year 3 with them and they are no problem. I don't know of any other steel rocker that isn't T&D or Jessel. I was shocked at the lead time those guys have. A year is what they both told me. ......Crazy AND ridiculously expensive.

 

[furrystump]

To be very fair, this rocker system had a TON of street miles (50,000)+ and 1000’s of passes on it. It is the previous generation of Comp stainless rockers without a bushing. I kept an eye on it, knowing the hard stainless and hard shaft might not get along well. I got a little lazy with inspecting it after so many years. I replaced it with the newest generation of the same rocker that now comes with a bushing. I still got off cheap, new rocker system and one valve. Looking at the listing, I think they are Chrommoloy now, not stainless. Definitely bushed.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

To be very fair, this rocker system had a TON of street miles (50,000)+ and 1000’s of passes on it. It is the previous generation of Comp stainless rockers without a bushing. I kept an eye on it, knowing the hard stainless and hard shaft might not get along well. I got a little lazy with inspecting it after so many years. I replaced it with the newest generation of the same rocker that now comes with a bushing. I still got off cheap, new rocker system and one valve.

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You have a scenario where I’d have full time oil going to the rockers. IMO that would certainly clean up most of that, if not all of it.

 

[furrystump]

I have full time oiling for the last 25% of that rockers life. Been 8-9 years since I went through and I was not very nice to it early on. It owed me nothing.