Shift kits.. do you really need one????

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Bakerlite said:
LOL. you seriously don't understand what this thread is about, do you?
Maybe if you spent a little more time reading it, instead of blowing your horn, then you might actually learn something..
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Maybe if you weren't such a dick you'd answer the OP's question. :violent1:

(hint: it's about shift kits)
 
340-4spd said:
Maybe if you weren't such a dick you'd answer the OP's question. :violent1:

(hint: it's about shift kits)
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LOL...you peanut...I am the OP..
Seriously, just keep kicking your own ***, it's very entertaining :)
But it does raise a question... If you call someone a "dick" and during that calling , you, yourself look like a "dick", does that make you a "double dick"???

:)
 
SO, you think you really need a shift kit or not?

Maybe a double shift kit?
 
Ahhhhhh (sigh) The thread topic was a rhetorical question...
 
Hi Bakerlite,
Nice thread. I don't have much to contribute in the way of experience considering I am in the process of my first transmission build, see the thread for photos and commentary (http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=245164). So it goes with out saying that I have limited knowledge on the subject.

You may ask yourself what can he contribute... and I offer the following.

In preparing for my build I spent an awful lot of time researching the different levels of overhaul kits and why one may choose one kit over another. I also looked into popular modifications, things like apply lever ratios, spring weight (both clutch pack and servo) friction material for bands and plates, overrun bearing and billet parts (and more). I also opted to include a transgo TF2 kit into the mix.

My personal reason for adding the shift kit during the build was laziness. I wanted to build the main (read:drive line) section the best that I could and install the shift kit to improve the stock setup and immediately reap any benefits the shift kit has to offer with regards to longevity.

For those who didn't read the thread I posted ^^^up there^^ these are the highlights of my build:

Parts:

· Transtar super deluxe Kit for TF8 (62-up) Gasket Kit, Sealing Ring Kit, Pump Seal, Extension Housing Seal, High/Reverse Friction, Smooth/Foward Friction, Front/Rear Steel, Large Dacron Filter, Front Flex Band, Washer Kit, Front Babbitt Bushing, Front Drum Bushing, Annulus Gear Bushing, Extension Housing Bushing, Reaction Bushing
· Billet Rear servo piston
· 3.8 Ratio kick down lever (using a flex band)
· Front Clutch springs
· Accumulator blocker rod (using 2800 stall converter)
· Bolt-in overrunning assembly (sprag)
· Bushing Kit (unused goes into inventory)
· Washer and shim Kit (unused goes into inventory)
· Transgo-tf2 shift kit
· Magnetic drain plug kit
· Neutral safety switch
· Line fittings

Spec’s:
My trans is set to the following :
1. Rear clutch pack clearance is .040
2. Front clutch clearance is .045
3. Planetary play is .025
4. Total end play clearance is .024
5. Front clutch pack increased from the 6 springs to 12
6. Front (KD) servo using both spring 45# inner/45#outer ( I have a 20# inner in inventory that can be switched in later)
7. L/R servo has the Transgo Spring and bush
8. Transgo restriction cup installed
9. Rear band adjusted to 3/8" of travel
10. Front band adjusted to 72in# backed out 2.5 turns

With the main section done I'm moving on to the valve body. For the valve body I intend to follow the Transgo instructions exactly (excluding the L/R piston grind, and optional shift command feature) because that is how the kit was designed.

Once I've completed the the valve body this unit will become my baseline moving forward (assuming It works and doesn't blow up ;P). I think that before one begins to tweak or tune the system, they need to establish a Norm that can be used as a basis for comparison. If I need to make changes in the future I will not need to drop the trans (unless something goes horribly wrong) to tune it which includes the cup.
If I need to I can remove the cup and tap the 2-3 port to accept different jets to moderate the rate by which the clutch is applied (read:timing) to control stiffness and flare.

I'll give you a read out after I get it back into the car and take it for a ride.

Take care
 
Bakerlite said:
Ahhhhhh (sigh) The thread topic was a rhetorical question...
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Most of what you got was rhetorical answer, lol

Without deciding who knows what and whether the previous posts are correct or not: Most of this is not fully understood unless you read and understand basic hydraulic function, and have a book (the allpar article was,,, lacking) or FSM with the TFlite description of operation in it.
 
Max340 said:
(the allpar article was,,, lacking)
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I would love for you to expound on this. I know Tom Hand would too, who wrote the article and is a very active member here.
 
Just call 727 specialists and have him build you a trany with a griner valve body and go have some fun--Done
 
Wow as someone who has only built one trans, a 904 built to handle the 524 hp 527ftlbs it sits behind I have to say I was really looking forward to an intelligent discussion.I have been going back and forth with the idea of putting in either a tf2 kit or a Cheetah prostreet auto valve body which is supposed to be designed to do all the things you would get from a kit in a stock valve body . There were 3 people whose help was crucial when I was building my trans and you Bakerlite have **** on or ignored 2 of them , atta boy , no wonder the third has remained on the sidelines , perhaps you should try engaging people if you want them to expound on their posts further .
 
The guys that know what they are talking about dont want to argue with the ones that have no clue,
 
AdamR said:
The guys that know what they are talking about dont want to argue with the ones that have no clue,
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That's a big part of it. Another point is that not everybody does it the same way. People are real quick to criticize or call someone else's methods wrong, when they've never tried somebody else's way. Too many so called experts that want to prove they are the only ones that are right. That's why I stopped responding. Also why I now avoid certain members altogether. It's not worth raising my blood pressure over.
 
I know this thread went kind of dead, but I just read every single post. Even if I were the builder/designer/engineer of these transmissions, I wouldn't have thrown my knowledge out there to this guy. The demanding way of asking for answers rubbed me the wrong way, and the attitude came off as childish and annoying to me. Just me though.
 
buffoni88 said:
I know this thread went kind of dead, but I just read every single post. Even if I were the builder/designer/engineer of these transmissions, I wouldn't have thrown my knowledge out there to this guy. The demanding way of asking for answers rubbed me the wrong way, and the attitude came off as childish and annoying to me. Just me though.
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.....................Amen brother.......................kim........
 
You guys must be board to drag this one up ..Yeah, dramatic.. Unfortunately it became quite clear early on in this thread that most of those here who are now having a shot at me simply knew how to fit a shift kit but had no idea about the theory behind the design or how the various selection of parts can affect the shift quality of the trans. The discussion about the cup made this glaringly obvious..
That is also why I gave up on the thread..
To say " I'm not sharing what I know" because of someones perceived attitude is just a cop out . The fact is that you just didn't know in the first place..
I've still been researching this subject since August, I've been lucky and managed to talk to quite a few people about design and function, and also factory trans internal options and why they were done, the results and the failures. Also how and why some mods can shorten the life of the trans and the reasons behind this.
Changes in line pressure and how this one thing alone will effect the transmission function. Spring rates, shift timing, various other valve body mods ( manual and reverse pattern) and the mods that people do that sound good but really serve no function. The difference in mods between a 727 and a 904 and the reasons behind this, etc, etc..
Bummer this thread went to crap... oh well..
 
buffoni88 said:
I know this thread went kind of dead, but I just read every single post. Even if I were the builder/designer/engineer of these transmissions, I wouldn't have thrown my knowledge out there to this guy. The demanding way of asking for answers rubbed me the wrong way, and the attitude came off as childish and annoying to me. Just me though.
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Sometimes you have to be demanding and push for answers. That way you find out if people are bluffing or actually know what they are talking about.
 
I fully understand what the OP is getting at, he wants to learn WHAT modifications can be done, and WHY they are done.. 90% of the responses have been install a kit and be done with it, which misses the whole point.
 
cannucky said:
There were 3 people whose help was crucial when I was building my trans and you Bakerlite have **** on or ignored 2 of them.
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Really, in what part of the discussion did I do this?
 
replicaracer43 said:
I fully understand what the OP is getting at, he wants to learn WHAT modifications can be done, and WHY they are done.. 90% of the responses have been install a kit and be done with it, which misses the whole point.
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Thanks, most seem to have missed the point..It's no biggie, I just had to go elsewhere to do some learning..
 
Bakerlite said:
Your ability to lower my expectations of you is just outstanding.
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What's so cool about that is, I don't give a crap about yours or any body else's expectations of me. Now go crawl back to wherever it was you got your information from and stay gone this time.
 
RustyRatRod said:
What's so cool about that is, I don't give a crap about yours or any body else's expectations of me. Now go crawl back to wherever it was you got your information from and stay gone this time.
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Well if that's the case, then why do you carry on like such a cry baby???
I don't know, maybe I've just taken you down a couple of pegs in this thread and failed to notice it...beats me..it's a mystery...
 
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