Shifting at 4600 rpm?

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71DartGuy

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Trying to get all the kinks worked out since dropping in the 383. Kickdown is adjusted and working great and I'm getting full throttle with the pedal but when i take off keeping the pedal on the floor the car will shift around 4600. It seems awful low for a 383 and was just wondering if I missed something?? Is there something in the tranny that could be holding me back?
 
I can manually shift from 2-3 bt not 1-2. I havent taken the time to modify my column shift linkage so I can make it to first gear. The flat piece of steel that connects to the rod hits my headers. I have an idea for modification but I'm thinking of waiting until I can get an SCS shifter and put my kit in all at once and just not worry about it.
 
Make the trans rod longer and this will make it shift at a higher rpm.
When shifting over 5000 rpm's ,it is best to start shifting it manually.
This will make it kick down faster and under less throtle.
So be careful.
 
The right way to do it is the governor weights. Manually shifting a torqueflite, even with a shift kit, can cause fast wear on the kickdown band and high gear clutch.
 
When you make the kick down rod longer by adjusting it, you are increasing the trans.(line pressure) and making the shift into the next gear hold to a higher rpm and also shift harder and sharper.
This is for leaving it in drive, and wanting a little more performance out of your torque flight.
 
T67POWER said:
When you make the kick down rod longer by adjusting it, you are increasing the trans.(line pressure) and making the shift into the next gear hold to a higher rpm and also shift harder and sharper.
This is for leaving it in drive, and wanting a little more performance out of your torque flight.
Click to expand...

Yes but even that has limits. Like the governor. No matter how long I'd make the rod on my car it still shifts at 4400 rpm cause the governor overrides the kickdown. Needless to say mine needs a higher rpm governor package like the original posters does.
 
moper said:
The right way to do it is the governor weights. Manually shifting a torqueflite, even with a shift kit, can cause fast wear on the kickdown band and high gear clutch.
Click to expand...

I agree the governor weights is the correct way to do it but if the trans. is built right, i.e. the right combination of parts and a good shift kit (not all kits are great I'm sure you know) so as to eliminate overlap during shifts manually shifting won't hurt it. In stock form they usually overlap pretty bad (even if you don't feel it) so it isn't a good idea to manual shift but as in the case with my car I have tuned the overlap out of it and manual shift it all the time. Had the pan down after approx. 2000 miles and no clutch/band material or metal in it at all.
 
You will only have limited improvement with linkage adjustments. A governor change is what's needed. I don't like auto shift myself and have manual valve bodies in all three of my cars.
 
To fishy 68 ____________
I have adjusted all my cars and have never had a problem getting them to shift at any rpm i wanted them too.
I always shift manually when racing but any torque flight that i have had, could always be set to shift at any rpm under full throttle when in auto drive.

I don't like to do this because the shift points will change with how much of a load is on the trans.and even the temp of the trans.can effect the in auto drive shift points.
The other thing that happens is it will kick down way too fast and will stay in low gear forever when driving normal road speeds.
When i use to cruise the main drag ,when i was just starting to drive,might i add,trying to be cool8),i would adjust my linkage and make the transmission stay in second under 40 miles an hour or so.
This would sound like i had gears in the car and was more fun to drive on a city street.
The governor weights do control your shift points but so does transmission line pressure and throttle input .
When given more line pressure, by the linkage, i have never had a problem going past 5000 rpms with any torque flight i owned letting it auto shift in drive.
You are correct in the case of the governor and how it does effect the shift points ,but to be honest,i would have to go look up whats really going on, when the transmission is working and under full throttle operation going threw the gears.

\\\ I have never had a torque flight do what yours is doing???? 4400 rpm's ????

When i set my cars up ,i make then shift like a stock car, but i leave the pressure on the low side so when i shift manually to a higher gear, it shifts right away with no delay.

The new chettah valve body's solve alot of these problems it seems.
I will have to say that my 904 in my cuda had a stock valve body in it for a little while ,and it had all the adjustment i needed for shift points.
I set that one up to shift at 5500 in drive with no governor mods.
This setting also gave me a good 1st to 2nd shift when driving normal and it would hold out and hit 3rd gear perfect.
This setting also let me shift it manually at 6000 rpm's with no delay.

Every car is not the same, and every transmission isn't built the same,,,,,so with all that being said,:sleepy2: i will go read up on the torque flight and re-learn what i have forgotten and understand some new things about the best transmission ever built.
Can you tell i love mopars.
 
The way a torqueflite is designed the governor pressure overrides the throttle pressure so no matter what you set the throttle pressure to the governor determines the rpm it shifts at. Only a modified transmission can work differently.
 
The governor ,from what i have under stood, does effect the shift point's.
I will try to read up on what i remember but i am pretty sure that transmission line pressure controls your shift points under full throtle and the governor controls it too, but how is where i will not say at the moment.
The differance between race and stock is huge, and there are so many things in between ,that i need to read up on this.

If you can help ,and understand a torque flight pretty good ,then how can i get all the torque flights that i have worked on to shift where i want to by adjusting the linkage if it's controlled by the governer alone???????
 
I understand that there are higher rpm governers available,but i have never needed one.
You are correct about the governor though.BUT.....
I always shift my (67 coronet) manually when raced,like i said ,but when i did let it shift in drive, at 6200 rpm's ,it was a modified transmission(ger) ---But i don't think they changed the governor.(67 coronet)

My new dynamic transmission i use now ,has no kick down linkage,because it has a full manual valve body.

CUDA
When i set the linkage up to shift, with my latest transmission with my cuda,at 5500 rpm's in drive, it was with a stock valve body.
Again, i never bought a higher rpm governor.
I will call my buddy,who built it for me,and ask him if he did any thing to the governor.
I also told you what i did back in the day and never had a problem, but could it be i was just lucky not to have gone past what the governor had for max rpm's in all my transmissions????????
I was just shocked to hear about such a low rpm shift point in your car and since i have never had such a problem,wish i could tell you how to fix it.
but i guess,,, fishy68 has the info on this one down.
 
T67POWER said:
The governor ,from what i have under stood, does effect the shift point's.
I will try to read up on what i remember but i am pretty sure that transmission line pressure controls your shift points under full throtle and the governor controls it too, but how is where i will not say at the moment.
The differance between race and stock is huge, and there are so many things in between ,that i need to read up on this.

If you can help ,and understand a torque flight pretty good ,then how can i get all the torque flights that i have worked on to shift where i want to by adjusting the linkage if it's controlled by the governer alone???????
Click to expand...

I didn't mean the governor controlled the shift point alone but it along with the 1-2 and 2-3 shift valve springs determine what the max rpm the trans will shift at with the throttle pressure linkage wide open. The throttle pressure works with the governor to make it shift at the right time. More pressure = higher upshifts to the point the governor over rides it. I can't say why yours went that high before it shifted. Possibly you had a shift kit in it that caused it?? I've rebuilt so many torqueflites I cant even remember half of them, LOL. That doesn't mean I know everything about them but I have studied up on how the torqueflite works a lot about them. What got me started was back in the early 90's I bought a Dakota and put a shift kit in it and the dang thing overlapped terrible. It was so bad it would nearly lock the wheels on the 1-2 shift if you had the drive wheels off the ground. I had rebuilt several torqueflites before that but never really studied the workings of them and you know how it goes, necessity is the reason we learn a lot of things. I sat down with a factory serv. manual and studied how the fluid flowed and what controlled what. Took me 3 tries but I finally got all the overlap worked out on the Dakota. Also in the process of doing several others for people I learned what controlled what in the governor circuit to make them shift where the customer wanted.
 
I just threw away the kick down linkage and stock valve body and replaced it with a Cheetah manual valve body. Along with my 10 inch converter-it shifts perfect every time I WANT IT TO.
 
Well said fishy68.........
I have worked on alot of transmissions, but still wonder myself, how they work after mods have been done to them.
Things get complicated because your changing one thing that effects another.
I still have not built a transmission all by myself ,but i am getting close to that goal.
The next one i have built ,will be built by my hands and the help of a freind that built my last one for me.
He is very good and consitant at torque flights and has a great track record as far as really making a strong product.
He said he would let me do all the work, and he would be there for help and advice.
When i say i have worked on alot of transmissions, i am talking convertors and valve bodys and band adjustments.
I have changed alot of front pump seals and tail shaft seals and so on.
I still have not done my own friction disk and steels with a feeler gauge and a complete rebuild by myself.
Transmission questions and anwsers can get complicated.
THANKS :thumrigh:
 
T67POWER said:
Well said fishy68.........
I have worked on alot of transmissions, but still wonder myself, how they work after mods have been done to them.
Things get complicated because your changing one thing that effects another.
I still have not built a transmission all by myself ,but i am getting close to that goal.
The next one i have built ,will be built by my hands and the help of a freind that built my last one for me.
He is very good and consitant at torque flights and has a great track record as far as really making a strong product.
He said he would let me do all the work, and he would be there for help and advice.
When i say i have worked on alot of transmissions, i am talking convertors and valve bodys and band adjustments.
I have changed alot of front pump seals and tail shaft seals and so on.
I still have not done my own friction disk and steels with a feeler gauge and a complete rebuild by myself.
Transmission questions and anwsers can get complicated.
THANKS :thumrigh:
Click to expand...

Yes some things you change can affect others. Once you learn what affects what it's a piece of cake. You'll love rebuilding a torqueflite. I did my first one in high school auto shop in 1981. Torqueflites are a very simple but yet great transmission. If you like to read there's a super good book out on them by Carl Munroe entitled "Torquelflite A-727 Transmission handbook". It's very well written and has several chapters starting with the original design and function all the way to building a full race unit and everything in between. You can find it on www.amazon.com or E-bay. It costs about $15-18 so it's not expensive. One thing to note is even though it's written for a 727 the same principles apply to a 904. They are for the most part identical except for parts sizes and a different front clutch spring assy.
 
I think only part of the story is being told here. If you have not rebuilt one of these things, I have a concern that the info given is only partial. I've built more than a couple but I don't believe I'm no guru with them. That being said... Kickdown linkage will not totally control the shifts, ever. If they were shifting that high either the main line pressure was jacked up using the regulator adjusting mechanism on the side of the valve body or ground the throttle pressure valve (done in the TF2 kits). The problem is when you only change one side of a hydraulic system beyond what it's capable of operating with, you create issues on the other side. I'll use the MP 5.0 "Hemi" kickdown lever as an example. Most good shops use the factory 3.9 or 4.2 lever. The 5.0:1 lever holds well, but doesnt release well.

High line pressure is a double edged sword. As far as "bonuses" to doing it:
It will increase the rpm at which the governor weights uncover the pressure port and the trans upshifts (kickdown pressure is a function of line pressure so if one goes up, the other does too by a proportionate amount... That's why they can make be made to shift higher..)
It increases holding power for all pivot points.
It speeds up all actions related to shifting. It decreases the time the kickdown band comes on (good thing for 1-2 shift where only the band applies, nothing releases)
As for what it does that is NOT good:
It creates more heat and parasitic loss from the pump working harder and can lead to the pump lugs shearing off especially in race sitations.
It greatly decreases the time it takes the high gear clutch to apply (bad thing for 2-3 upshift as the band has to release before the clutch applies and the band is much slower and is worse with the higher ratio band apply lever).

Most shift kits contain methods to help both sides of the hydraulic circuit and these should be carefully followed. Simply cranking line pressure and pulling the accumulator spring isn't the best way to do it. You're trans is better off left stock and unmodified. The shift kits are the best way to minimize any damage but because of the way the trans works manually shifting it will cause more wear than letting it shift itself with an "Auto" equipped valve body. The hard parts and passages are calibrated for the automatic function. By holding it in a gear you are asking the hard parts (like the piston return springs and shift valve passages) to work outside thier design parameter. It might not be very evident, and with care and experience it can be minimized, but it's happening none the less. If some have gotten things to work by only doing part of the work I'd say they got lucky, maybe more than a couple times, but it isn't supposed to work like that and I wouldn't call it good advice.
 
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