Should i be concerned? Rocker oiling deficit

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clementine said:
There is a groove inside just adjacent to the hole.

Sorry, I don't know the difference. comp cams piece.
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So it’s a solid bushing?

If so, you absolutely have to verify that when the valve is on the seat the hole in the rocker lines up with the hole in the shaft.

And it needs to lined up pretty damned close or you’ll get what you are getting.

EDIT, I just noticed the OE hold downs. Those gotta go. All they do is eat into the rocker.

You need to be able to shim the rocker in both directions.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
I just noticed the OE hold downs. Those gotta go. All they do is eat into the rocker.

You need to be able to shim the rocker in both directions.
Click to expand...
Yea I just noticed after you mentioned it, how did I miss those factory hold downs. lol
He needs to get the blocks and set side clearance at .015
 
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clementine said:
The problem is when the rocker slides lateral (in this case aft) the hole doesn't show at all. When the rocker slides all the way forward, only a TINY sliver appears. I don't hear a ticky tick ALL the time. I'm gonna pull the assembly, check to see if its mucked, then probably make the hole slight larger to the aft side.

@RustyRatRod
I did read Mikes article about geometry. Im running a sub 500 lift cam and when I look at the pushrod to adjuster angle, Im not seeing anything crazy angularity wise. I do appreciate the suggestion, but before I take Mikes time I will do a little more sleuthing.
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You call Mike. He gives you ONE measurement to take. You tell him what it is and he'll tell you if you need help. It's less than a five minute phone call. Just about every single Mopar shaft system needs relocating for correct geometry. It also halps with oiling hole alignment. His advice on the first phone call is PART of his process. It's your choice. You can either learn something, or keep struggling. My car runs great.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Mike can tell you.
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I got a guy that wants to buy roller rockers. He HAS to have them. I’m good with it but do you think I can get him to go to Mike’s website and read the tech pages?

Nope.

Think I can get him to pick up the phone and CALL Mike so Mike can HELP him get the best rocker he can with the best geometry he can?

Nope.

You’d think we were still paying for long distance telephone calls. It’s nuts.

Back in the day a 200 dollar a month phone bill wasn’t unusual. Today it’s not once cent more to call anywhere in the country.

And guys still don’t want to do it. But they’ll text and email.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
I got a guy that wants to buy roller rockers. He HAS to have them. I’m good with it but do you think I can get him to go to Mike’s website and read the tech pages?

Nope.

Think I can get him to pick up the phone and CALL Mike so Mike can HELP him get the best rocker he can with the best geometry he can?

Nope.

You’d think we were still paying for long distance telephone calls. It’s nuts.

Back in the day a 200 dollar a month phone bill wasn’t unusual. Today it’s not once cent more to call anywhere in the country.

And guys still don’t want to do it. But they’ll text and email.
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I just don't understand the attitude where people just don't want to find out if it's right or not. I mean, it costs nothing to call him and find out. I'm always baffled by it.
 
The size of the hole on top that actually breaks thru to the ID of the rocker is only about .030”.
I’d could easily be plugged with some debris…….or maybe was never drilled all the way thru.

First thing I’d do is pull the rockers off the shafts and verify the holes are indeed drilled thru, and clear.

IMG_3864.jpeg
 
RustyRatRod said:
You call Mike. He gives you ONE measurement to take. You tell him what it is and he'll tell you if you need help. It's less than a five minute phone call. Just about every single Mopar shaft system needs relocating for correct geometry. It also halps with oiling hole alignment. His advice on the first phone call is PART of his process. It's your choice. You can either learn something, or keep struggling. My car runs great.
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Right tighty.

I’ll give him a call.
 
PRH said:
The size of the hole on top that actually breaks thru to the ID of the rocker is only about .030”.
I’d could easily be plugged with some debris…….or maybe was never drilled all the way thru.

First thing I’d do is pull the rockers off the shafts and verify the holes are indeed drilled thru, and clear.

View attachment 1716403434
Click to expand...
I would even go so far as to enlarge them. .030" is ridiculous, IMO. I know they all add up, but I'd want more than "THAT".
 
PRH said:
The size of the hole on top that actually breaks thru to the ID of the rocker is only about .030”.
I’d could easily be plugged with some debris…….or maybe was never drilled all the way thru.

First thing I’d do is pull the rockers off the shafts and verify the holes are indeed drilled thru, and clear.

View attachment 1716403434
Click to expand...
I pulled it apart and it’s clear. The holes don’t really line up too well.

The hold downs will be addressed.
 
The OP’s rockers are not bushed.
It’s steel on steel…….with a groove in the middle.

I haven’t had a set of those here in a while, so I don’t recall how wide the groove is.

In the newer bushed version, there is a very wide cavity between the two bushings, so it’s virtually impossible to have the oil holes in the shafts not being able to supply the cavity.

IMG_3865.jpeg


IMG_3866.jpeg
 
RustyRatRod said:
I just don't understand the attitude where people just don't want to find out if it's right or not. I mean, it costs nothing to call him and find out. I'm always baffled by it.
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I hesitated to call immediately because i wanted to enter into the conversation with a bit more knowledge. The last 24 hrs have produced me knowing quite a bit more due to your and others input.

I appreciate youz guyz.
 
PRH said:
The OP’s rockers are not bushed.
It’s steel on steel…….with a groove in the middle.

I haven’t had a set of those here in a while, so I don’t recall how wide the groove is.

In the newer bushed version, there is a very wide cavity between the two bushings, so it’s virtually impossible to have the oil holes in the shafts not being able to supply the cavity.

View attachment 1716403440
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I did notice wear on the bottom of the rocker shaft. I didn’t catch my nail on it or anything, but the history of the engine is a fairly low hour unit.

I’ll give Mike a call.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I would even go so far as to enlarge them. .030" is ridiculous, IMO. I know they all add up, but I'd want more than "THAT".
Click to expand...
We all have our own way of doing things.
There are several rockers for BBM that have no oil holes to lube the valve side of the rocker(HS and Jesel to name two).
My feeling is that the valve side of the rocker is a lower priority for pressurized oil than the pushrod/adjuster interface.
I look at it as an increase in the hole feeding the valve side steals lube from the pushrod side.
In terms of the size of the holes feeding the valve side of the rocker, a .030 on each rocker is huge imo.
It could be 1/2 that and still be plenty.

The old Crane Gold rockers intentionally had the feed holes not aligned with the groove in the body, in an “edge orifice” oiling situation, to restrict flow.

IMG_3867.jpeg
 
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What is the preferred hold down bracket? Do they help with lateral adjustment?

Drilling out those holes definitely entered my mind. Or making rocker rail feed holes oblong or larger.

Working today, I’ll update results when i get ahold of mike. The hold down brackets are of interest to limit lateral movement. A quick n dirty hole enlargement might be a good solution but i won’t hurry as to make a good decision
 
PRH said:
The OP’s rockers are not bushed.
It’s steel on steel…….with a groove in the middle.

I haven’t had a set of those here in a while, so I don’t recall how wide the groove is.

In the newer bushed version, there is a very wide cavity between the two bushings, so it’s virtually impossible to have the oil holes in the shafts not being able to supply the cavity.

View attachment 1716403440

View attachment 1716403445
Click to expand...


I didn’t see he had Comp rockers. They LOOK like stainless rockers in the picture and the Comp is so small I didn’t see it.

Yup, no bushings.
 
clementine said:
What is the preferred hold down bracket? Do they help with lateral adjustment?

Drilling out those holes definitely entered my mind. Or making rocker rail feed holes oblong or larger.

Working today, I’ll update results when i get ahold of mike. The hold down brackets are of interest to limit lateral movement. A quick n dirty hole enlargement might be a good solution but i won’t hurry as to make a good decision
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They have very little bearing area. The rockers do get some side loading.

It can wear a nice little trench in the side of the rocker.

Then I grab the in the lathe and trim the bad spot out and get better hold downs.

Either way I try to use a shim between the rocker and the hold down regardless of the type of hold down.
 
PRH said:
We all have our own way of doing things.
There are several rockers for BBM that have no oil holes to lube the valve side of the rocker(HS and Jesel to name two).
My feeling is that the valve side of the rocker is a lower priority for pressurized oil than the pushrod/adjuster interface.
I look at it as an increase in the hole feeding the valve side steals lube from the pushrod side.
In terms of the size of the holes feeding the valve side of the rocker, a .030 on each rocker is huge imo.
It could be 1/2 that and still be plenty.

The old Crane Gold rockers intentionally had the feed holes not aligned with the groove in the body, in an “edge orifice” oiling situation, to restrict flow.

View attachment 1716403447
Click to expand...
I see a secondary hole for oiling the pushrod/adjuster. I did not see those on mine.

More investigation needed.
 
That’s actually one of the best features of that(Comp) style rocker…….pressure fed adjuster screw oiling.

There is a feed hole in the body that intersects the adjuster screw threaded hole.
There is a recessed section of the adjuster screw, and there is a pair of holes connecting that recess directly to the top of the pushrod.
 
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When those rockers first came out they were supplied with the OE style hold downs.
The rockers are much harder than the hold downs, and the area of the rocker that rides against the hold down has a pretty low profile(and not particularly smooth), and can grind a trough into the lower area of the “tab”.
When they updated the rockers, they started suppling better hold downs(which appear to be like what Indy supplied with their rockers).

I don’t bother with side shims on the new pieces, and if I need additional side clearance for the pairs I trim a bit off the spacer rings between the rockers.
 
On the OP’s parts, If the hole in the shaft is not in line with the groove in the rocker body, that needs addressing.
I’d probably do like a mini-banana groove type thing to the shaft, so the groove in the body had full time access to the feed hole.

I still have one of the Comp non-bushed SB rockers, and it has the adjuster screw feed hole right in the groove.

The new bushed BB rockers obviously have the adjuster screw feed hole located well within the cavity between the bushings.

This is what the new hood downs look like. They’re steel.

IMG_3869.jpeg
 
PRH said:
We all have our own way of doing things.
There are several rockers for BBM that have no oil holes to lube the valve side of the rocker(HS and Jesel to name two).
My feeling is that the valve side of the rocker is a lower priority for pressurized oil than the pushrod/adjuster interface.
I look at it as an increase in the hole feeding the valve side steals lube from the pushrod side.
In terms of the size of the holes feeding the valve side of the rocker, a .030 on each rocker is huge imo.
It could be 1/2 that and still be plenty.

The old Crane Gold rockers intentionally had the feed holes not aligned with the groove in the body, in an “edge orifice” oiling situation, to restrict flow.

View attachment 1716403447
Click to expand...

That’s one of the Crane rockers that has the lower oil feed hole to the pushrod.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
That’s one of the Crane rockers that has the lower oil feed hole to the pushrod.
Click to expand...
That particular rocker is an intake with a little more offset than the std rockers.
This is what they sold for B1-BS heads.
I’ve seen these start having pushrod oiling problems after a few dyno pulls(roller cam).
The pushrod feed hole is just too far away from the groove.
I found that making a small channel connecting the groove to the feed hole cured the problem.
This particular combo would start to break intake rockers after about 125 passes.
After two rounds of that, an upgrade to T&D’s happened, and that ended the rocker issues for that engine.

IMG_3870.jpeg
 
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