should i use a stall converter?

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68 A

68 A

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i've been reading a few posts that have answered a few of my transmission questions. However i still have a question about a torque converter. I am building a 318 that will be a little over 300 hp. I have a remanufactured 904 and i have concluded that it will work fine with the engine, and i read that i could improve the performance of it with a shift kit. The cam that i am going to use in my rebuild is rated from 1,800 to 5,800 rpm. I will not be racing the car, it will be street driven only. I was wondering if the stock torque converter will work fine with this or if i would benefit from a stall converter?

i've never driven anything with a stall converter and dont know much about them. thanks for the help!
 
even a mild build up can benefit from a good qualty converter. It all depends on what the actuall specs of the cam yiou are running is and how much you want to spend.
 
Sounds about like my car...or so. I have a $650 3,500stall/3900flash Dynamic converter with 3.91s and a low gear set. It'll get out of its own way. I went from a 'cheap' 3,000stall that i only got 2,500 out of and was inconsistant at the track and am much happier from the low end grunt, to even jumping on it on the freeway. If i cruise at 60 at whatever, 3000rpm and nail it, she'll flash up to about 3,900 and take off. :D. A lot to be said for a good quality converter.

And mine was daily driven with no ill effects from the high stall. Pay to play, step up for a GOOD converter and you can have something pretty 'wild' while very streetable.

I wouldnt hesitate to buy another.
 
Yeah your gas milage will most likely go down, but with a 3500 stall--and thats pretty high--it take off much much better. That is whats so great about auto trans. Thats how racers can still use a 2 speed powerguild trans and go so fast, but they use 5000+ converters. Don't forget the manual valve body if you want to do it the best. Me-al cheap o - just went with a factory high stall for a v6 motor. I have got like 1800 stall and 3.91's with a low set of trans gears, I am pretty happy with it, but I know its hold me back a little.
 
My mileage didnt change one bit from my low end converter that i was getting 2500 stall from to my 3500dynamic. It drives the exact same like a 2500 until you nail and it opens up..

...again, just another day for a high end converter.
 
I gotta hand it to goody here guys. He nailed it on the head hard. A good converter will not be realized in a everyday driver despite the hi stall it can give. Many a people have spent much on a converter from Dynamic and have nothing but praise for it.
Follow his advice, it's money well spent, not money......well.........spent. (AKA- Wasted)
 
i dont know much about these as i said earlier, but how much benefit will i get if i get a 3500 stall instead of a 2000 or 2500. I could use more education on how they work too. Its my assumption that you have to rev the engine to the stall speed before the car will move. Thus, i need to constantly be running at least 3500 RPMS everywhere i go when i am driving with a 3500 stall convereter. or at least 2,000 rpm if i have a 2000 stall converter. Could someone please correct that for me? that information would help clear things up about the advice i am getting. THanks again.
 
68 A said:
i dont know much about these as i said earlier, but how much benefit will i get if i get a 3500 stall instead of a 2000 or 2500. I could use more education on how they work too. Its my assumption that you have to rev the engine to the stall speed before the car will move. Thus, i need to constantly be running at least 3500 RPMS everywhere i go when i am driving with a 3500 stall convereter. or at least 2,000 rpm if i have a 2000 stall converter. Could someone please correct that for me? that information would help clear things up about the advice i am getting. THanks again.
Click to expand...


Ok here we go lol. A 3500 high end converter will be much more 'fun' and probably do quite noticely better at the track. First 60feet are the most important. And the engine does NOT rev to the 'stall' speed before it will be driven forward. Thats quite far off actually. The 'stall' of a converter is, lets see how i can explain this so it somewhat makes sense. More or less if you try and footbrake (burnout) with a 2500stall, it will rev to 2500rpm before letting the power get to the wheels and start to turn. Same goes for a 3500. That extra 1000rpm gets you more into your powerband. A converter's 'flash' is from a dead stop, WOT, nailing it and see what the converter lets you run to. In my converters case, i can footbrake it to 3,500 before spin. And it will flash to 3,900 from a dead stop, just plain nailing it.

However. I can cruise on the freeway just like i could with that 2,500stall. Meaning its not slipping, or 'stalling' as i cruise down the freeway at ~3000rpm even though it is a 3500stall.

hope that somewhat covers it. A 'high stall' converter gets it's name for getting out of the hole. Think of it as this...Trying to pound a nail into wood.

A 'low/stock' stall converter would be like trying to drive the nail with only moving the hammer a couple inches from the nail. Take forever right? Not very efficient for getting the job (job being the car out of the hole) done very well.

A 'high' stall is like winding the hammer back and driving the nail in, in one blow. Gets it done, and you out of the whole faster/more efficiently. Like a running start for the motor to get revving before it has to drive the wheels and move the car.
 
thanks Goody, that helped clear things up alot and was easy to follow. i understood the concept that they were designed to get higher rpms for holeshots, but never really thought about the fact that they would be used on a street car. So it will allow my engine to work in the power range by elminating the low rpms. If it will improve the driveability of the car, i am all for getting one. But $650 seems a bit steep to me. Are there other companies that make a converter of the same quality but dont cost quite that much? i do want to spend my money on a quality product the first time so that it is the only time i have to spend it. thanks again,
 
It will increase the overall performance from a dead stop of the car. It will effect the actual 'normal' driveability minimally give you get a good converter. I based my $650 purchase off of, personal recommendations that were spoken very highly of. That was a big factor in why i went with dynamic. I do have a friend that is happy with his 'edge' converter he paid $475. It does everything he asked for it to do, but it does slip while cruising so he has to have a killer trans cooler setup which about equals the cost out. Dynamic has a pretty darn good rep, and you wont hear a peep of bad out of me. I'm 19, so coming up with a 'extra' $650 to toss at something was a big decision, and I'm very happy with the money i spent on it.
 
PTC is a liitle cheaper and a very good quality part but if they were much cheaper and still great I dont think Goody would have spent $650 on his wich is actually a good price for a good converter. My Turbo Action was over $1000 but dont worry you dont need a 8" race converter that stalls to 4500 rpms.

What are the specs of your car ?

motor, cam, carb, intake, compression gearing, tire size and weight ?

I reality I think even something like the Mopar Perf converters or a off the shelf Turbo Action or Dynamic converter would do fine for you.
 
DJV was running a MP 145k? whatever it was, he swapped to a dynamic and gained 10mph for the same RPM! (hope that makes sense. Say he was turning 3000rpm with the MP and was going 60mph. With the dynamic he turned 3000rpm and was going 70mph)
 
GoodysGotaCuda said:
DJV was running a MP 145k? whatever it was, he swapped to a dynamic and gained 10mph for the same RPM! (hope that makes sense. Say he was turning 3000rpm with the MP and was going 60mph. With the dynamic he turned 3000rpm and was going 70mph)
Click to expand...

This don't surprise me. The MP converters are just remanufactured stock converters that have the fins bent to provide more stall. They also have more slippage due to that which creates more heat.
 
The only thing I can throw in here is that a good trans cooler will be vital for your trans to live. Goody is right on about converters, however, in stop & go traffic, a higher stall speed converter will make more heat. But nothing a good cooler can't solve.
 
68 A said:
i dont know much about these as i said earlier, but how much benefit will i get if i get a 3500 stall instead of a 2000 or 2500. I could use more education on how they work too. Its my assumption that you have to rev the engine to the stall speed before the car will move. Thus, i need to constantly be running at least 3500 RPMS everywhere i go when i am driving with a 3500 stall convereter. or at least 2,000 rpm if i have a 2000 stall converter. Could someone please correct that for me? that information would help clear things up about the advice i am getting. THanks again.
Click to expand...

In addition to goody's post, pretty good by the way goody, I'd like to add;

The stall on the converter is 2500, for say. And will flash @ 3000.
How well it cruises is due to the slipage it has. In other word, the motor will turn more to achieve the same speed.
This is seen as percentage of slippage. The less the better.

While cruising or racing, the less slipage the better. The more the converter slips, the less efficent it is and that translates into less power to the wheels. It also adds heat. (As said before)

The fins inside the converter are repositioned to get the fluid into the main case and gears. How well there positioned determins stall and efficent power transfer.

This is a part that you basicly seem to get what you pay for.
After reading alot about peoples experiances, the MP seems to be the best bang for the buck while on the cheap.
 
I'll throw another name out there.....ACC Performance. http://www.accperformance.com/index.htm

I got my converter from them and it is fantastic. It's an 11" converter and it's great on the street and it killer on the track. I had mine custome bulit to match my cam and for me using nitrous. This converter is one of the big reasons my car is in the 11's with the 318 and a 100 shot. Call Nelson and give him the run down of your car and what you want to do....he'll take care of you. He's the owner and the builder......I called him up and told him what I was doing...he built my converter later that day and I had it at my house 2 days later and it wasn't all that expensive either....cheaper than a lot of the companies out there......put it this way....I paid less for the ACC converter than I did for the POS TCI converter I had in the car before. My car is probably 80% street driven too and the converter has great street manners and hit hard when it needs to.
 
Go to TCI's website and fill out the form asking for their recommendations. Answer their questions and mention in the comments area that you have a shift kit. I did that. I have a 727 with a TransGo TF2 kit and a 3.2 KD lever, A 360 with the 340 cam, 9.6 CR and Magnum Heads and an 9.75 rear with 3.73 gears and tire Diam of 25" that will be street driven. They recommended a 1600 - 1800 Sat Night Special.
 
I have to clarify that footbraking a car is not a good gauge for checking stall speed. Ask any quality convertor company like Dynamic (which is what I also have) and they will tell you the same thing. There are to many factors that can change how this works (or doesn't work). In my car if I try to foot brake my car on dry pavement it will push my locked front tires at 3,500. If I have my rear tires in the water at the track it will drive thru my rear brakes and spin the tires at 2,000. If I put on my trans brake it will stall to 5,000. So weight of the car, condition or size of your brakes and tires sizes are a few things that can effect how you try to foot brake a convertor.
Also you will get slippage below you convertors designed stall speed. This is why it stalls. There are so many factors in determining a convertor that is why it is best to use a purpose built convertor and not an off the shelf convertor. These factors include but are not limited to; weight, engine torque and HP, cam power range, rear end ratio, use of the car, etc.

The one company I will not use would be TCI and I will tell you why. When I filled out their form with all of my specs they also wanted to know what convertor and stall speed I had now. When they replied they gave me a part number for one of their off-the-shelf street/strip convertors that matched the one I had now. The reason I was looking for a new convertor was because I suspected that I was using the wrong one. When I told Dynamic and Coan the same specs I gave TCI the first thing they told me was I had the wrong convertor (not enough stall) then they recommended a convertor. Both of the convertors they recommended had the same basic specs, the only reason used Dynamic instead of Coan was that Dynamic could get me the convertor before Coan could. The pricing was only basically the same.

So like Goody and the other guys say purchase a good one, just like everything in life you get what you pay for.
 
i gotta chime in here since my ears were ringing.....lol

I built a 360 , with a tunnel ram , and a mopar 474 lift cam, and 3.23's... sounds like a messed up combo already right?? lol

throw in the 1.88 intake valve smog heads and its really starting to sound like a bad setup

I first ran a mopar 175K ( 2500 ) stall converter - 200 bux, IMO that was alot since it was the fisrt stall converter I ever bought....lol

the car would get 14 mpgs burn rubber pretty good.... and have a 1.94 60' time at the track.

I lasted one year with that setup

Driving down the road messin with abody joe we were hollaring between cars - what rpms you running??? - we were spinning the same rpms - HE HAS 3.91's!!

He had a dynamic converter and I was calling sean that very next day - I had no idea my converter was that inneficcient - I tried calling ATI at first - they would not sell me a converter due to the fact of my 3.23's - they said thier ddesign would not last long and burn mt tranny up.... OK - I gave sean all my info - he delivered my converter and saved me shipping -

NOW - I get 16 mpg's
I cruise 400 rpms lower or 10 mph faster at any given rpm either way you can clearly see how efficient the dynamic is.

my new 60' time is 1.86 and I have still yet to get a cold air run to beat my old best.

last year in the heat I ran a 13.3 @102 - this year in the heat I ran a 12.91@104 - I believe this is due to the efficient converter.

My best to date is 12.80 @ 108 - but I'm hoping to get a 12.7 something in the next few weeks...

It was the best money I spent on my car all year - Sean took good care of me and the dyamic 9.5" is one efficient converter.... I'd buy another in a heartbeat....

I should have listened inthe first place - it would have saved me 200 bux
 
Wow, I think most of you are running too high of a stall. But yeah your ET's are great so if thats how you drive-on the strip where every .1 of a sec. counts use it. But really a 3900 rpm stall belongs in a 7500 red line motor.

When it comes to high stall con. size matters. You need a small one, thats why they have 8" & 9" race ones. Sure , somebody can make a 4500 11" but it slip way too much. 10" is the way to go on the street.

When I was 25 years old I had a 2500 stall but it broke and I could not afford another one. I lived without it and later on got 3.91 gears and other stuff. Its quicker now than before. To get the most out of a con. you need a big cam, and other high rpm stuff. It still work without it but its a "bandaid" you could say. Your cars must be fun to drive I bet and your not wowing these new "hemi" cars like the Dodgecharger site guys I would think. I think they stink, and again I am using only a 1800 rpm stall con. Its almost funny to think some think those new chargers are quick.
 
i believe modern converter technology has played a HUGE roll in this - if I can run 3800 stall on the street with 3.23's - that was unheard of before -

the 9.5" unit I run will flash but has the correct fin pitch to be very effiicient and " lock up" under the stall speed
 
You may be right, I should be with a wife and 2 teenage kids by now, not running around with a 30 year old car driving like a teenager sometimes but hey--Its more fun I believe.
 
thanks for all the great info and contact information. I have learned alot about this in the last few days. Once i figure out my combinations with the motor and rear end i will fill out a form for one of the companies you suggested. It sounds like i wont be wasting my money with the purchase of a converter.

AdamR - I'm building a 318 right now, will have Keith Black pistons, i'm not positive what hte compression will be since i'm not sure how many CC the heads are. But they do have the 2.02 and 1.6 valves. It will have a Comp 270H, Torker 340 intake. I'm not sure what size the carb is, its on the 273 that is currently in the car. I dont know what the rear end gearing is either, but i think i should look into buying a bigger rear cause from what i hear a 7 1/4 isn't going to last too long. I'm guessing that i should look for a rear with 3.55 or 3.91?

thanks again for the help
 
Go 3.55 if you drive on freeways 70 mph+ everyday and for more than 10 mins. Otherwise 3.91's will ET better and you still can go over 100 but yeah the motor going to be screaming. I love my 3.91's and if I had a free gear change avaible 4.10's would go in not 3.55. But thats me , I think most people would like 3.55's on the freeway. Your comb. with the big port heads and valves & intake, cam sounds like it would love 3.91's but the Q is will you like it?
 
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