Slant 6 timing help- Torqstorm and Sniper EFI

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rich_mc

rich_mc

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To start with, I'm not a mechanic and have never played with timing at all. Having said that, I do have a new timing light.

For reference, the car is a 76 Scamp, so it came with mopar factory electronic ignition. Build thread is here: A-Body Round #2- My '76 Scamp restore... Engine internals are stock and the car has about 60k miles.

Over the winter and spring I installed a Torqstorm Supercharger, Holley 2300 Super Sniper, and a bunch of other misc items such as 1 wire alternator, dutra duals, gill welding fat pipe, etc. Also moved the battery to the trunk and used info from the forum here and installed Ford starter relay, main disconnect switch, continuous duty relay for alternator cutoff, and another relay triggered by ignition power that I will be running into the passenger compartment to connect to a volt meter, boost gage and tach backlights, etc.

I also installed the Holley Coil Driver unit. After reading that the Sniper will also control ignition, I followed some info found on various YouTube videos and forum posts and locked the distributor and removed the vacuum advance.

I've now reached the point where all of the new Sniper wiring is in and clean, and the old factory harness is in but unwrapped. There's a bunch of wires disconnected since I no longer have the voltage regulator, Mopar ignition control box, or ballast resistor. I plan to cut out the unconnected wires and rewrap the factory harness, but not until I have the car running so as not to remove anything that might end up being needed after all.

So today, after fighting the fuel pump all day and finally finding/resolving a bad ground, I was able to get the car to start. It runs for about 4-5 seconds, then stalls. I currently have the timing advance in the Sniper handheld set to 20. I do not yet have any offset values to change the timing as boost increases. At first, I had the timing advance in the Sniper handheld set at 0 as I'd read somewhere here that 0 BTDC was correct for slants, but it would only cough briefly but not run for more than a second. After about half a dozen times of running for 5 seconds or so at 20 degrees, the battery got too flat for it to start again. So now I'm letting the battery charge and will give it a try again tomorrow.

My point in typing all this is to see if anyone can give suggestions on what the timing advance and boost offset should actually be set to in the Sniper handheld? As noted, I'm not a mechanic and all my learning has been trial/error and through forums/youtube, so if something obvious should be checked, I'm all ears?

Few pics below of current status. Note that the factory harness is still unwrapped and the vacuum lines I've run are temporary and will need cleaned up yet.

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Fuel pressure was low. Got it cranked up and she idles now.

Got hot. Fan didn't kick on and I'm not sure the thermostat opened as the level in radiator never dropped. Fan should've kicked on at 190 but it got to 212 with no fan.

Gotta let it cool and then troubleshoot more.
 
Make sure the timing displayed in the Sniper unit matches the timing you see with a timing light before anything else.
 
It's an essential tool for any standalone EFI, especially on engines that aren't crank fired. You need to know the computer has the right data to calculate ignition timing.
 
Make sure you didn't put the thermostat in backwards. Grab the upper hose and feel for temperature.

Some Holley systems had problems. Not sure which as it isn't in my front sights anytime soon. A friend has a Holley system that needs tweaking on his Buick Grand National. He is doing a checkbook build so he hasn't got the knowledge.

Are you planning on adding an intercooler? Looks like you would have to clock the turbine 180* for the piping. Knowing the temp of the compressed air might be a good thing. Maybe something that can be read by the controller.

Running "X" amount of boost requires opening up the gap on the top piston ring. What "X" is? I have no idea. Using the factory pistons monitoring detonation audible and inaudible is a good thing.
 
Rug_Trucker said:
Make sure you didn't put the thermostat in backwards. Grab the upper hose and feel for temperature.

Some Holley systems had problems. Not sure which as it isn't in my front sights anytime soon. A friend has a Holley system that needs tweaking on his Buick Grand National. He is doing a checkbook build so he hasn't got the knowledge.

Are you planning on adding an intercooler? Looks like you would have to clock the turbine 180* for the piping. Knowing the temp of the compressed air might be a good thing. Maybe something that can be read by the controller.

Running "X" amount of boost requires opening up the gap on the top piston ring. What "X" is? I have no idea. Using the factory pistons monitoring detonation audible and inaudible is a good thing.
Click to expand...
Wasn't planning on an intercooler yet, but was keeping it in mind for maybe a next winter project.

Top hose is hot. Will check thermostat direction.
 
MadScientistMat said:
It's an essential tool for any standalone EFI, especially on engines that aren't crank fired. You need to know the computer has the right data to calculate ignition timing.
Click to expand...

So I watched some videos on timing lights and checked. Put some white paint on the harmonic balancer on either side of the mark. The marker on the engine only shows up to 10 degrees before or after TDC, but from an estimation it looks like my current timing is about 30 degrees after TDC. I currently have the timing in the Sniper handheld set to 0. I'm gonna have to do more learning in order to figure out what these values mean, or hope for guidance from y'all.
 
rich_mc said:
So I watched some videos on timing lights and checked. Put some white paint on the harmonic balancer on either side of the mark. The marker on the engine only shows up to 10 degrees before or after TDC, but from an estimation it looks like my current timing is about 30 degrees after TDC. I currently have the timing in the Sniper handheld set to 0. I'm gonna have to do more learning in order to figure out what these values mean, or hope for guidance from y'all.
Click to expand...

Is this the point where I need to loosen/rotate the distributor until the harmonic balancer mark lines up with 0 on the scale?
 
For reference, when I had the engine out, I did use one of the TDC whistles screwed into the plug #1 hole and it did appear that the whistle stopped right about when the mark on the balancer was lined up with 0 on the scale, so I don't really think my balancer has slipped.

Gonna let it cool down again, but thinking that I need to jump a tooth or two on the gear and then try again maybe.
 
Get in to the instructions of the sniper and do the timing verification FIRST. This is where you lock the timing in the sniper to an arbitrary number (I think they use 15deg BTDC) and then make the mechanical timing match that number (on the balancer) by rotating the distributor. This HAS to be step 1
 
TT5.9mag said:
Get in to the instructions of the sniper and do the timing verification FIRST. This is where you lock the timing in the sniper to an arbitrary number (I think they use 15deg BTDC) and then make the mechanical timing match that number (on the balancer) by rotating the distributor. This HAS to be step 1
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'll dig back into that book. I did notice the handheld run screen was showing 15 degrees despite my entry in the setup wizard being 0 currently (previously 20). As noted, there's likely a step I missed.

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TT5.9mag said:
Get in to the instructions of the sniper and do the timing verification FIRST. This is where you lock the timing in the sniper to an arbitrary number (I think they use 15deg BTDC) and then make the mechanical timing match that number (on the balancer) by rotating the distributor. This HAS to be step 1
Click to expand...

Nothing in the printed manual they send with the unit about that, but I did find a page talking about it in the online manual they don't package with the unit. I'll report back after some more playing with it. Thanks.
 
Once the timing is verified and the mechanical timing matches the 15 degrees locked in the sniper, you have to go back in to the wizard and unlock the timing to make all of your ignition tables active. Don’t forget that step.
 
Hmmm.... I was able to get the timing down to about 25 after TDC by rotating the distributor CCW... Went ahead and pulled the distributor and rotated the gear I think 1 tooth CCW and reinstalled. Now it just won't start. Battery dropped low again after a bunch of cranking, so I'll throw it on the charger again and get back after it later.
 
Start over. Pull the distributor, get number 1 to TDC on compression. Then rotate the engine to 15 degrees BTDC on the balancer. Stab the distributor with the rotor pointing to the number 1 terminal on the cap.
Then go to 7:50 in this video and follow what they do.

The video references a Holley hyper spark distributor but the timing verification is the same.
 
TT5.9mag said:
Start over. Pull the distributor, get number 1 to TDC on compression. Then rotate the engine to 15 degrees BTDC on the balancer. Stab the distributor with the rotor pointing to the number 1 terminal on the cap.
Then go to 7:50 in this video and follow what they do.

The video references a Holley hyper spark distributor but the timing verification is the same.
Click to expand...


Thank you. This makes much more sense and seems more direct than just guessing like i was doing. I'll report back.
 
TT5.9mag said:
Start over. Pull the distributor, get number 1 to TDC on compression. Then rotate the engine to 15 degrees BTDC on the balancer. Stab the distributor with the rotor pointing to the number 1 terminal on the cap.
Then go to 7:50 in this video and follow what they do.

The video references a Holley hyper spark distributor but the timing verification is the same.
Click to expand...



This worked. I think I might need to get the larger pulley. They offer a 3, 3.5, and 4 inch...got the 3.5 now but probably need to get the 4 to slow the blower down a bit as it's seriously loud even just at idle!

 
Don’t worry about changing parts just yet, it’s clear from your video you have a lot of tuning to do. Every time the throttle is whacked the timing goes to zero, then returns to 15. Make sure you cleared the timing lock in the wizard and then you need to get a base tune in the tables.
 
TT5.9mag said:
Don’t worry about changing parts just yet, it’s clear from your video you have a lot of tuning to do. Every time the throttle is whacked the timing goes to zero, then returns to 15. Make sure you cleared the timing lock in the wizard and then you need to get a base tune in the tables.
Click to expand...

Thanks much for the guidance today.

I'm 99% sure I got the timing lock removed. Before it stayed at exactly 15 all the time, but afterwards at idle it'd bounce up and down in range of 14-16ish.

Regarding "base tune in tables" - is that what is established by driving it and letting the Sniper "learn", or is there a user input needed?

I did get the fan issue mentioned this AM sorted, so it was staying nice and cool in the 180-190 range afterwards.

My next plans are to finish cleaning up the wiring, make the vacuum lines not ugly, get the grill and lights back in, seats and carpet back in, little modification needed on pipe route at the exhaust shop, and then hopefully put some miles on it. I'm excited!
 
You’re welcome. Glad you’re getting it figured out. Make 100% sure you cleared the locked timing feature in the wizard before doing anything, then watch here.

 
I should mention since you asked, the self learning capabilities of the sniper are limited to only fuel. The base timing tables that come loaded with the sniper are rather crude and need to be tailored to a specific combination, especially in your case because of positive manifold pressure.
 
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